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Carbon Hardtails....
What are people's thoughts on a carbon hardtail (e.g Scott Scale 20/30) as a second bike for use in races, flat trails ?
I currently have a dual suspension which serves me well today but thinking of a much lighter second bike for use round the Dam, Ourimbah and events such as Dirtworks, Highland Fling etc.
For those of you who have both a dualie and hardtail what would you use around the above tracks ?
Noticing that the a lot of the top riders race on hardtails e.g. Rockstar boys what is the trade off ? Weight / cost v Comfort when looking at a high end spec e.g. buy a Yeti for $5k+ v Carbon Hardtail ($3.5k) and continue using the other dualie round Red Hill for example ??
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I have a 10kg Scott Scale 20 which I love for racing and firetrail training. I also have a 12kg Specialized Stumpjumper which is set up for more technical trail riding and has more robust components - but I also use it for the odd race.
The benefit of the carbon hardtail is weight and the directness of the ride (ie power gets transmitted to the wheels without being absorbed in the rear shock) plus it loves climbing hills. The downside is that it doesnt descend as well as the dually and its less comfortable on anything rocky or technical and even some smooth but twisting singletrack. I also find that I am out of the saddle more and absorb more of the bumps in my lower back and therefore need to ride more smoothly and choose smoother lines when riding the hardtail.
I have raced the Scale at Dirtworks a couple of times where it was great on 90% of the track but pretty rough on 10% where it was rocky. Also raced at the Highland Fling where it was perfect as its a very smooth and hilly course. I find that I prefer the dually at Manly Dam and Ourimbah because they are slightly rougher and twisting with more log roll-offs etc. I also prefer to use the dually for night ridiing and at 24 hour events such as Stomlo and the Mont as if you dont see something in the dark the dually eats it up whereas the hardtail can throw you off line.
I would definitely recommend a carbon hardtail as a second race / training bike but the dually is more versatile (and comfortable) as an allround bike.
Go a Scalpel
http://www.cannondale.com/usa/usaeng/Products/Bi...
or this
I thought I'd do the same some years ago, but did it on a aluminium frame with 100mm reba forks.
One lap of the dam and I realised why I like full suspension so much, and converted the hardtail to a single speed commuter.
The guys that race the hardtails are mostly young hyper fit guys that can use their legs for suspension AND pedal at the same time
With some seriously light full sus bikes out there you can have the best of both worlds, particularly given so much of sydney and surrounds is pretty techy. I find there are precious few tracks that I'd be thinking 'gee this would be ok on a hardtail'.... If you are going to shell out serious cash for a superlight carbon hardtail, also have a look at a super efficient full sus like a pivot mach 4/5 or if you want a sub 11kg 140mm dw-link 'universal bike - have a look at an Ibis Mojo.
The only caveat I'd give, if you are really set on a hardtail is to try out a 29er. There are some interesting bikes coming from Cannondale (flash 29) Gary Fisher (on closeout as Fisher is now defunct, absorbed by Trek), and of course the boutique 29 builders.
W
I'd agree with Whisperer.
I had cause to put the knobblies back on the hardtail I use for a commuter a few months ago when I was awaitng a replacement for a broken brake master cylinder on the full susser.
I loved the climbing efficiency and acceleration. Just brilliant.
I didn't love feeling every single little bump and pebble under my back wheel. The sense of being in command down steep loose descents was non-existent, and my lower back let me know quite early it was missing the other bike.
Alloy frame with carbon seatpost and Crossmax SLR wheels. Steel-spoked wheels might offer a bit more give and to be fair, the fork is missing a bit of travel as the damper needs servicing, but the difference wouldn't have been that much. So not a choice I'd make for a long ride.
Next step is to put a 1/2" lower bar on the susser to improve riding position for climbing.
A Cane Creek Thudbuster seatpost might offer a happy middle ground if you're set on a hardtail.
and also have a Taurine, sub 10kg hardtail which i built up for a superfast race bike.
although the Taurine looks great i've hardly ridden it. i've been told to htfu and get used to it but i havn't done that yet.
i get tempted to take it out but look at the Rize and say "Na! give my 41 year old fragile bones a good time, not a hard time!"
after the 24 worlds i'm gonna start concentrating on more short, fast, power rides so i may start to ride it more then? watch this space.
Btw, i do quite well on the Rize at short course xc races.
in my opinion, i say dont believe the hype. unless you're a superstar, super elite, comfort is the key to riding a bike fast for a couple of hours or more. once the legs and arms take a smashing then you'll slow down to ease the pain.
like the others have said, i think you're better off investing in a super light full susser if you're older than 25.
you know why all the young ones ride hardtails??????
because they cant afford a full suspension bike!
with the views so far, I certainly noticed the difference when originally going to a dualie in terms of back soreness for example.
Time to start saving !
These days how a nice quality steel frame never seems to be on anybody’s radar.
If you want a comfortable fast hardtail steel is really worth considering add 29er wheels into the mix and you are talking about a fast comfortable bike.
Have a look at some steel 29er hardtails from the likes of Niner, Salsa and Voodoo.
Or if 26inch wheels are your thing check out a Jamis Dragon or a Voodoo Bizango I had a Dragon for a while and it was a great bike super responsive, fast and very comfortable.
My soon to be N+1 will be a Niner MCR mmmm Reynolds 853 tubing cant wait it should be a super sweet ride.
There is a small weight penalty to pay with steel over an alloy frame but the comfort factor of steel and 29er wheels is more than enough compensation.
Yep Gazza you need to HTFU I have had no problem competing in longer races and solo 24hr outings on a steel hardtail curiously the most pain I have ever experienced at a solo 24 was on a dualie and the most enjoyable pain free solo 24 was on a 29er SS steel hardtail.
I had never ridden a hardtail until a year ago and thought those elite guys on them were just living in the past an unable to move on.
I smashed a frame late last year in a race and had a race a couple of weeks later so bought a hardtail that was available to me at short notice. I fell in love with it...
I remember my first few rides around Manly Dam were faster on the hills but slower on the downhills but after a few weeks I got used to landing on the front wheel then suddenly I was smashing my lap times. I found within a short period I was lapping multiple laps about 3-4mins a lap faster. The solid back end encouraged me to stand on every hill which made the most gain.
Nearly a year on I have a hardtail (aluminium) and a dually built to the exact same spec and choose to race the hardtail on almost every race as my 100km times are a half hour faster on nearly every event then they were the year before.