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help with bike's handling
NB: Originally posted elsewhere on the Global Riders Network and appears via syndication.
Need a little help with my new bike. I'm finding the front end tends to slide in corners which makes me feel a bit nervous. It seems fairly light in the front. What's the best way to fix this? Should i rotate the handle bar so it's more forward? lower the bars? longer stem (it's currently 75mm)? i've tried lowering the tyre pressure but still slides.
thanks for any advice
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When I started riding MTB I had exactly the same problem. I tried bigger tyres, lower air pressure, but still felt sketchy in the front.
Eventually I think my skill increased, I ride with more weight forward in the corners, and am now back to skinnier tyres and higher pressures without problem.
Try getting your weight a bit further forward when cornering and increase the front end grip. Don't worry about the rear sliding as that is a lot easier to control.
Also loosen up your grip on the handlebars, especially on the descents. If you keep your arms too stiff the bike will bounce over the rocks and you'll have no control. Loosen up a bit and let the suspension do its job and you'll find the bide tracking much better downhill.
Cheers
Jon
What tyres are you running?
specialized captain sport 2.2 front, 2.0 rear. I guess i am relatively new to mtb so it maybe my skill level is not up to scratch but i didn't really feel this sliding on my old bike. would any of my listed changes help? thanks
good tubeless tires and lower pressures are the go!
i tried a friends bike back when i had the old hardtail and found the same thing, i found it was the difference in the angle of the headtube, so if your new bike is a little different to your old bike it could be just a case of getting used to a new riding position.
good luck
Regarding some of the changes you suggest:
Rotating the bar so it's more forward will put more of your weight on the front wheel. Be careful of what it does to your hand position and angle though as I may affect long term comfort.
Longer stem - again will put more weight on the front wheel.
Both of these changes will move your weight forward, but may have an adverse effect when descending and technical stuff when you want to get your weight back.
With your tyre pressures what are you running? You'll need to tell us a bit about yourself too (height, weight) in order to put the tyre pressure into context. Are you using tubes or tubeless? (I wouldn't want to run low pressures with tubes due to risk of pinch flats.)
take a photo of yourself sitting on the bike. It's almost impossible to comment from a descripton.
I have a short torso and long arms. I run a short stem, but I invert it. If i have a positive rise stem (29er) i feel like I am sitting up to much, and out of touch with the trail.
i'm running around 30psi. started off at 35 psi but lowered it to see if it would help. tyres are tubes. my height in around 5'7 and fairly light weight. bike size small (specialized fsr xc) though it seems smaller than my old hardtail which is also size small (giant). i guess the head angle is different to my old bike so maybe its a matter of getting use to it.
My solution was easy flip the stem , your weight is always forward or lower ..It was happening on flat fire trails cruising along !!
and it's definitely technique.
I had some scary half-loses at the Back Yamma Bigfoot at the end of September trying to keep up with other riders on the loose twisty descents. They looked well planted, I was barely in control.
I'm running a Maxxis Ignitor 26x2.35 tubeless on the front at 30psi for 85kg rider ready to pedal, so it ain't the tyre and it ain't the bike... it's me.
I've got myself booked in for the AMBC intermediate skills clinic. As soon as the Dam is open again, hopefully the course will run. Once I've worked out what I'm doing wrong, I'll be sure to pass it on.
so by inverting the stem, would that be the same as lowering the bar? i'll give it a go anyway.
I had the same problem on the epic2010 light front end felt like it wanted to slide out on the corners sounds like a bit of shocky lag front shocks too soft ajust them for a more firmer stiffer rebound..worked for me
Besides getting you slightly more forward, it gets you closer to the ground for better steering response.
Just take it easy over technical descent sections for your next few rides. Maybe lower your seat a little as well if it feels like you're having trouble getting your backside back and down over the back tyre
I did a test ride on a 29er a few montsh ago that had mid-riser bars and a riser stem. It felt like I was riding on stilts - really high up and awkward. Flipping the stem got me lower and closer to what I was used to, and the bike felt a lot more nimble and planted.
Forget changing the bike set and adapt your technique first
Make sure you are weighting the outside of the bike especially the outside hand. Lift the outside albow up and forward a bit and push down through the bar
It could just be the tyre. Try the one you have on your Giant. The Specialzed doesn't get great reviews so a tyre change may make some difference. I went from a crossmark to a rendez on the front and the difference was incredible. Every thing else remained the same but I suddenly had heaps more front grip.
I had a crossmark on the front and ended up with broken ribs, went to a Continental Mountain King and don't have broken ribs.
There is a thread (or two) somewhere here about possible crossmark problems on the front.
Again, there are folk who have a crossmark on the front and it works fine so it might/could be the skill thing too. I'm relatively new to this stuff and have loads to learn yet, but I was decidedly uncomfortable with the crossmark on the front.
A couple of easy things to try are remove a few spacers under the stem - new bikes seem to come with too many; and moving the saddle forward a little if the fit of the bike allows it. You could try a longer stem, especially if you've got one lying around, it could be an expensive experiment otherwise. A longer stem will slow the steering which may not be what you're after. Rotating the bars will change the angle of the grips to your hands which might be less (or more!) comfy.
Really it comes down to balance on the bike, maybe you just need to get the weight forward... weight on your legs, outside foot forward or down, elbows bent. Look through the corner, not at the tree you'll hit if you don't make it. A lot of it is confidence, if you think the front is going to slide you get your weight back and it does!
I wouldn't make any dramatic changes until you've had a chance to get more used to the bike, maybe take it easy through corners until you work out your technique, then you'll have more of a feel for what you need to change.
For Flynny and sean-c
add a ride in the ride calender & get a few of us too ride with you then we might be able too help you more ,do u ride alone or with mates & where do u most often ride ?
Thanks for all the help guys! I've only rode lake parramatta and toongabbie and i do ride with a couple of other guys. i will probably try dropping the bar and see what it does. at least that doesn't cost anything! Has anyone seen any good videos on the net teaching cornering techniques for mtbs?
Check out Fluidride: Like a pro
http://fluidride.com/2008/06/25/fluidride-like-a...
Should be able to find it at your LBS or online.
if you can get hold of it, Fundimentals is the one to watch.....
checks teh youtuebz...
http://youtu.be/rm1ANkGUQI8
http://youtu.be/wjTshC5UqpE
http://youtu.be/BZdz9MdeQDM
http://youtu.be/Wc5QVuInR0E
http://youtu.be/DITQQ9EwNFI
http://youtu.be/EBTiyW7Bg-o
By fiddling with your bike's setup, you change how it rides under ALL circumsstances, not just downhill/corners. If your front is washing only during corners and the bike is fine everywhere else, tyre pressures and stem setup may fix it, but it will also stuff around with your riding under all other conditions.
Instead, learn to push your front tyre into the ground during corners & berms - get low & use your arms to push it in! your rear wheel can take a little vacation as long as your front wheel follows the line. then look into the turn and carve, you will feel the smoothness kick in. You'll get an added bonus when you exit the turn & relax your arms - released pressure on your suspension "springs" your bike up and out of the turn, boosting your speed. hit the pedals hard at the right time after that, and you'll bullet right through
Thanks for the vid links Flynny and loki they look really helpful. I will definitely work on my skill set. so the technique of getting low and pushing down on the front, would that apply to all corner types eg. slow tight radius, switchbacks, faster sweeping corners, etc? or is there different techniques for different types of corners? is leaning into a corner on slow turns important or more for faster turns. I'll really have to get out and practice this stuff.
Don't overthink it - just get out and ride
If you feel like it and have the time why not try a few different approaches to a corner and see what happens. Try your weight in different positions, lean differently etc.
One thing I still find hard to get a handle on is leaning the bike over and not your body. If you've ridden a motorbike it's the opposite action! Lean the bike over, keep the foot and weight on the outside pedal and push the bike into the ground.
Oh and don't forget - have fun
Bermed corners you weight the inside bar and keep your feet pretty much balanced, maybe a bit more weight on the outside
Flat and off camber weight the outside bar and out side foot and try and push the tyres into the ground along a vertical plane.
The slower you go the less you want to lean as you'll fall over.
Where you look is a big thing. you want to be looking around the corner. Your body goes where your head takes it. If you are looking at your front tyre you will go OTBs, if you are looking at the crash zone on the outside of the corner you will go there.
Looking around the corner also help twist your shoulders around which helps to weight the outside bar
Take some pics mate. All this advice is great, however it is only really good for those that have given it. Take a few pics. That will help us rule out set up as the problem (or rule it in if it be the case) Once we can see how you are sitting on the bike, then we can help you go through all the other options in a systematic fashion, ie tyre pressure, suspension set up, etc etc.
All this advice is doing my head in and I've been riding mtb for 20 odd years
Sit on your bike with both hands on the bars. have someone take a photo of you side on.