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Clip On or to not to Clip On
NB: Originally posted elsewhere on the Global Riders Network and appears via syndication.
Whats the go for MTB'ers using clip-on's
I think I would prefer not to have them so i can freely move my feet on the pedals but if there are any advantages to using them i'd consider changing.
So are there any advantages to using clipon's ?
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Once I switched to clip-ins I never went back. For me, it's all about the stability and security of knowing that my feet won't come off the pedals during a high-speed descent, especially if it's rough!
The downside to clip-ins is when you're attempting a technical climb, and don't quite have enough to get up ... then you need to rapidly unclip and put your feet down. It's all about practice, and retrainging yourself to a knew way of getting your feet off the pedals.
There's also the embarassment of falling over in the parking lot or at traffic lights when you fail to unclip, or unclip but one foot but lean the wrong way! (Speaking from experience here)
To date, every single time I've fallen that I "blame" on being clipped in has always been at VERY low speeds .... either stopping, or losing my balance a bit when going really slow. The lesson here? GO FASTER!
-Greg
Interestingly enough ... I just had a browse over at Singletracks and saw these two articles:
Making the Switch to Clipless MTB Pedals
How to Switch to Clipless MTB Pedals
Check it out =)
Kazam, this topics has been discussed many times in lots of forums and you will get a debate or arguement from both sides. And both sides will generally be right so it's really a matter of personal choice.
personally I agree with Rune....I feel very stable and secure clipped in whether XC, All Mountain, DH or Freeriding. Especially Freeriding which may seem odd, however its one discipline you don't want your feet popping out.
XC racers prefer to clip because it means they can really put the power down knowing that they can't possibly slip.
You may get some DHers who like flatty's because of some of the tight turns where they want to put there foot down for stability. Other DHers prefer to be clipped in.
Most of my bad accidents were not as a result of being clipped in. More of poor line choice or doing something completely beyond my capabilities.
Best to try both and see what works but just take it easy at first.
Good luck.
I don't see any reason why you wouldn't clip in for XC. There is a little bit of a learning curve (but IMO nowhere near as bad as what everyone makes out) and with time you end up damn quick at unclipping. A couple of low speed mishaps but otherwise like the others have said the more significant crashes have been a result of running out of talent.
Not my place to comment on the other disciplines, which is really where I think the debate lies.
I moved to clips about 3-4 months ago and don't have any complaints about it. There's definitely the fear of making an ass out of yourself in public (its happened to me once! got on the bike and then fell flat sideways), but once you get used to clipping out its almost second nature (or rather, how I dismount has changed to include unclipping).
By the second or third ride I found myself naturally clipping out when stopping. Sometimes I also clip out early when I see a line I think I may have trouble/need to bail out of.
As others said, it definitely helps keeping your feet to your pedals when it gets bumpy and also for climbing.
clip in. when you first start, make sure the retention spring is very loose, tighten the spring as you become more confident.
I have shimano m545s which I clip into for most stuff, and clip out and use as platforms for hairy stuff where I know I'm likely to put a foot down.
The downside is that depending on the tread of your shoe, it can get caught against the cage making it harder to twist out, which has bitten me once or twice - usually embarrassingly while stopped....
I have not tried non-platform styles, so can't compare.
Advantages:
*You're one with the bike.
*No need to worry about where your foot is on the pedal, it's always at the sweat spot
* Get a full pedal stroke rather than just mashing on the down stroke,so gives you better efficiency. Also lets you isolate so if your gettign tyred you can just pull up for a bit or just push down for a bit
Disadvantages:
Ummm, nope can't think of any.
I can get my foot off a set of clipless quicker than I can get them off a descent DH flat pedal. I suppose it can be a bit awkward getting clipped back in at speed over rough stuff.
James Wilson believes they are a bit of a crutch that can lead to poor technique due to their ability to mask bad habits while you are learning the ins and outs of off road riding...
Personally I use them for everything but dirt jumping.
Try some of the Shimano PD-M324. One side is flat the other has a clip-in.
On what Flynny said -
There are some schools of thought that believe Clip-Ins make you a lazier rider in terms of proper pedal stroke and foot placement/positioning
I've switched to clips, then away from clips, then back to clips, then away from them again, and are now using Flats and DH shoes on my AM bike to try and get back to concentrating on how I am pedalling and where my feet are on the pedals.
Comes down to personal preference.
I just love being attatched to my bike and could never go back to Flats
Thanks for the input guys i appreciate it
Sounds like just the extra power you can get from clipless pedals is worth it
If your riding XC it is almost a must!
Having rode a Dirtworks 100 with downhill flats... I'm qualified to say you'd have to be insane to not clip in for something like that.
There is a compromise called crank bros mallet, its a flat, its a clip in, its a flat, its a clip in.. and I use them on my Red Hill bike where I have a habit ( some say bad) of clipping out for the technical stuff where i tend to dab..
Although I'm not a fan of the crank bros "non adjustable system" and if I had my choice again I'd look at something adjustable.
I bought / learnt with Crank Brothers Candy SL's and now have the new Candy and Eggbeater 3's on my bikes . Couple of friends (Shimano users) tried them and switched over straight away. I can't comment on other brands, but love the simplicity of Crank Bros. pedals.
Good luck if you choose to change to clip ins Kazam.
Cheers,
Stu.
I started out with M520 pedals (xt's with afew grams). and multi release cleats, just gives you a few more options when you need to get out in a hurry.
It is going to hurt, we have all been there. But well worth it.
I am the biggest chicken s#*& cleat wearer around, you can do it.
I've always ridden clipless on my bikes (XC and DH), but a few months made the switch to flats for DH.
Took me a long time to get the hang of not riding clipped in, particularly jumping and technical sections. Having ridden both I can see there being debate in DH between the two platforms but for XC, I just can't imagine not being clipped in.
I would stay away from crank bros pedals.
If you want a great clip pedal with a platform then get the shamino DX pedals.
I race state and national downhill and the shamino pedals are what most people use if they are clipping in. Its very rare to see crank bros pedals.
I tried them and hated them. They dont have any tension controll. The shaminos you can adjust the realese tension.
It can be tight as hell or really loose or anywhere in between.
I have a couple of friends that thought I was full of shit and purchased the crank bros pedals on a recomendation from there LBS. They have had nothing but trouble with them. One of them actually clips out before going downhill as he cant get out of them if he gets into trouble(no tension realease)
They have both now switched to the DX pedals and wouldnt go back.
Really?
I switched from shimano to crank bro a few years ago (back when the old shimano system was renowned for clogging up in mud) and haven't even considered switching back. The only complaint I have with CB is that their cleats wear a bit quicker than the shimanos.
Otherwise I find them a lot better pedal and never had an issue of not being able to unclip or unclipping unexpectedly
Yep forsure. The Shamino DX pedals offer great mud clearance just like the crank bros but they also offer realease adjustment and the cleats dont wear.
I've used shimano and crank bros but you can't beat the time atac. Easiest to get in and out of in all conditions but I've never come out accidentally. A bit heavier and pricier than other cross country style pedals but well worth it!
Sounds like its not a matter of using clipless but rather what ones
One of the things that concerns me is what if I do a over the handle bars kind of crash and my feet are stuck in the peddals I would imagine the outcome would be a lot worse.
Pitty they don't come with air bags.
Iv'e been over the bars a few times with the crank bros candys and when iv'e landed ive found myself uncliped, and while the tension is unadjustable they still release with the flick of an ankle.
yeah I've stepped out of a couple of OTB type stack using clipless. Lets face it if you are going over the bars what pedals you are running is the least of your worries.
A stack will hurt whether you run clips or not
Agree with the above. The way in which you are falling has a much greater bearing on whether or not you have an opportunity to bail. I reckon anything you can get out of with flats you'll most likely get out of with clips as well.
After some practice you become so conditioned to unclipping that there is no need to think about it.
If anything, I have more issues getting back in really quickly if I get unclipped from say a pedal strike or I bugger up and spin out on a steep pinch and have to try and get started again.
Crank Bros Eggbeaters. There's nowt better. Nuff said!
I dont agree, I believe the Shamino DX is 10x better than the EggBeaters.
If you just doing normal XC it doesnt matter that much but for Tech XC, AM or DH the the DX pedal is far better suited.
I can adjust my DX pedals so I dont even have to move my ankle to come out. They can be so loose that you can unclip by just pulling up. You dont even need to try. This is a bug plus if your learning.
I have my pedals on my DH bike loose, on my Reign that are a bit tighter and on my anther they are really tight.
Horses for courses!
I hit my pedals on rocks occasionally, especially pedalling through techy uphills with step-ups. Yeh, yeh so I'm a gumby.
If you do that with eggbeater design, the jaws can open on the other side and your foot escapes. On the Shimanos, each side is independant and an inadvertent rock bash has no - erm - impact on what happens to on the other side of the pedal.
I use XT's and rate them. Previously used M520's for ages and they were good too. Mud clearance good but probably not so good as EB's, and heavier, but I prefer the adjustability as I run the single-release cleats and light tension. Not too much trouble clipping in again if I need to dab, and stepping out to avoid an OTB has become a reflex action.
for interests sake
http://www.bikejames.com/barefoot-pedaling-flat-...
"I like doing this" and "Because what you are suggesting is different to what I do you must be wrong".
The BikeJames forum really brings out the haters. Personally I know no different than clip pedals as most people probably do. What's worth noting in the discussion is a salient point often overlooked - if you're going to try another system you need to invest the same amount of money in the alternative system to your current one. If you run XT pedals and decent MTB specific shoes, don't expect that a $10 of flats and some old worn out sneakers will provide a reasonable comparison.
I think anyone that's promoting the idea of becoming a better rider needs to be heard. Of course, this is only useful if you realise you're not a perfect rider...
Andrew
can go on for days I tried both so there u have it, easy option for u is to try them all if u can then make your own decision like I did ,don't ask silly questions just try them will you .
bite the bullet and go high.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Shimano-XTR-M980-SPD-Peda...
These are fantastic - no clog, easy to clip in and out and 100% reliable.
They actually dont take that long to get used to. 3 - 4 rides i think would be enough time for your brain to get the idea. the only odd thing i had to report was when i had finished riding - put the bike on the roof - got in the car and drove off... For some reason my brain was telling me i was clipped in to the accelerator.... yes - i know - im a little strange...
My clip in history was - flats to caged clip ins (deore), Deore to XTR, became a weight weenie and swapped to Look Quartz Carbon (120 - 130g). Still using them today.
Its also funny how your brain teaches you to move your heal first. This now applies to every day things too.... Thats why im not a very good dancer.... Oh well, guess i'll just go ride a bike.
I'm not so quick on the uptake - took me awhile longer to get comfortable with them on techy tracks. But then my bike skills were nonexistant when I started with clip-ins. (Some would say they still are
).
But still, I managed to unclip my way out of an OTB today at Yellomundee so if I can do it, I reckon so can most. Heel out and foot down is now well automated.
If you do some digging on the BikeJames website, there is some interesting info that points to clipless not providing any real power increases (maybe some very short spurts however). They do however appear to lessen the input of the glutes which means overloading the quads and hamstrings whilst not taking advantage of your most powerful muscle group.
I'm going to swap over for my next trail ride and give them a few months to see how it feels.
Firstly, yes I'm a big fan of clipons and feel very unconfident on the rough stuff without them. At the Jet Balck 24 where there were lots of sandy corners that often required quick dabs I loosened off the tension so I could very easily clip out and it worked at treat, best of both worlds
I bought a set of these for my commuter, cheap wellgo pedals that cost me less than $20 from Cycling Deal in melbourne. They were meant to be cheap and cheerful throwaway pedals but they've exceeded my expectations
http://www.wellgo.com.tw/p-image/WAM-M18.jpg
For some reason that I can't remember I moved them onto my MTB in place of the Shimano's I had and haven't looked back. They always release, adjust well and were about 100g lighter than the Shimano's they replaced. I like the very open design for shedding mud when it gets messy.
I just upgraded to a set of the XTR M980s and I love em! Still working out the release tension, but so far they've been great. The Trail version has a nice wide platform also, for those times when you either unclip for a technical section or when you fail to clip in quickly on a downhill bit!
I've found it a bit harder to actually get them to clip in than my old set, but I think that it's just a technique thing and i'll adjust to it (hopefully).
I recently bought the shimano DX pedals, and you can clip out fairly easy. I use them for cross country and free ride and when i do come off they clip out straight away!
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/component...
I'm also thinking of switching as my ankles look like swiss cheese after using flats for years...
I've had a good read through all the comments here and there isn't much support for flat pedels. I'll stick up for old school rear wheel sliding with a foot down...I've been toying with moving to some five ten SPD shoes for about five months now and just can't get over the hurdle. Taking in all arguments, I'm really close. I've just done Capital Punishment 50km with a 14kg all mountain Marin and flat pedals, I'm sure the last 10km's would have been less painful with clips although flying down skyline and luge at Stromlo, it has its advantages to drop a foot if needed quickly. December I had a knee injury and I saw Blair Martin, the body mechanic (he's brilliant) and he suggested that for my injury I should stay in flats until rehab was completed.
In summary, depending on where a person is on the experience scale, if you are new to the sport ride a hardtail first, as it takes more skill to ride that style of bike fast and start with flats to build your confidence. After that, all these good people can't be wrong...
Lezo, I race at state and national level downhill and finished 2nd last year in vets(30-39)
I have always clipped in for all riding including DH. I can drop a foot just as fast as anyone on a pair of flats.
It really comes down to your choice of shoe and pedal and how you set the pedal up.
The luge at stromlo was hard packed and didnt require your foot to be dropped at all. I caught and overtook 19 people on my way down. I was on an anthem with XT clip in pedals. No problems at all.
If you pick a good quality shamino pedal you can adjust the release tension on the pedal making it alot easier to get in and out!
Thanx man, this is the beauty of information, hearing about other people's experiences. I rode ourimbah DH on my old giant hardtail 12 months ago with a younger mate who had clips, and I was amazed as my perception was that all DH'ers rode flat pedals. How wrong I am. He had so much control of the back end of the bike, it was awesome. Watching a fair bit of UCI DH, many guys clip in there too. It sounds like it's time to get a can of harden the fire truck up and give it a crack.
What shoes do you wear ?? What pedals do you use ??
"Watching a fair bit of UCI DH, many guys clip in there too"
I can only think of 2 world DH champions that have won on flats. The rest have been clipped in.
A lot of the guys will change depending on the track but have a look at your own riding style.
Do you stick your foot out moto style on every corner? Go flats.
Do you mostly keep your feet on the pedals? Go clipless
As I've said before I can get my foot off a set of clipless easier and faster than I can get it off a spiked flat with five 10s. So getting your foot out to drift isn't the issue. Getting it back on when belting over rough terrain can be. It takes practice to know exactly where that cleat is to get it to clip in quickly
I like Shimanos. The tension is adjustable so the release point can be set to your liking. I used to run them really loose for quick escapes when I was starting out, and have only just recently cranked them up a turn to work better with the stuff I learned at the AMBC skills course a few weeks ago. It's nice having that capability. I run XT's.
The other thing I like is that they don't release if you happen to strike a rock with your pedal, which can happen with Crank Bros.
For shoes, any mtb-specific shoe that fits you. Fit is the most important attribute, whihc depends on the shape of your foot. Again, shimano shoes have earned their popularity but they don;t suit everybody. I don;'t use them myself as I need to wear orthotics and the inner soles aren't compatible.
If you do a lot of walking, then you wwant one with a bit of flex behind the toes. If you do no walking and can ride everything, the stiffer the sole the better as it is more efficient. I have one pair of each.
I find that if i go into a corner to hot with my clip in's i can still easily get my foot out if im about to stack. I swapped over about 6months ago and now that im used to them i can ride everything i could before plus more. Only thing i might do sometimes is when im doing a realllly technical section i might clip out one foot just for piece of mind.
I cant say i've noticed a difference but there also supposed to make you faster because you can pedal on the upstroke as well.
For the record i have spd's.
Good luck..
Guys,
awesome knowledge, you've got me, I'm in. Got the pedals, shimanos that came with my bike but have been sitting in the cupboard for 9 months, time to buy some five ten SPD's and get clipped !!
Really good feedback and stories, you all made me think, it's actually not that often that I drop a foot anyway...the major challenge with change is convincing yourself to have a crack !!
thx again
Lezo
Great info here guys
thanks
I have the peddals! all I need now is the right size shoes.
I'm kinda hoping that it'll shave a few minutes of my lap times