You are hereForums / By Discipline / Mountain (off road) / MTB Gear / Camelbaks
Camelbaks
NB: Originally posted elsewhere on the Global Riders Network and appears via syndication.
Once again I am posing very amateur questions. This weekend I am riding in the Scott 24hr. I am thinking of carrying a camelbak due to when i drink from a bottle I tend to slow down. Does anyone ride without taking any water?
- Login to post comments
- Bookmark & share
I've not done the Scott before but I wouldn't do any race without water.
I always use a camelbak rather than a bottle because it's easier to drink from. If the laps are short, don't fill it to the brim. Just put enough in to get you round otherwise you'll be carrying extra weight on your back.
Do you find that wearing a camelbak restrains your movement or feels uncomfortable or do you feel you ride just as well as it off?
A small camal back makes no difference to comfort and control and it is easier to drink.
Anaconda had some good sale items in a catlogue they sent me the other day. One of them was a backpack similar to a camelbak, but was only $12. Had a right angle bite valve on the bag which looked OK. May go and pick one up on the weekend myself. I think you need to be a member, but you can sign up in store anyway, so no big problems.
Although i haven't raced before i generally ride with my camelback with plus 2L of water and all my tools and stuff. I don't find if restrains me at all. Its a lot easier riding with it then having a water bottle.
Yeah so for a 16km race ill probably only fill it up to the 1L mark or less.
Thanks everyone for your help
If I can, prefer not to use a Camelback.
I normally skimp on tools as well, take a tube, CO2 can, levers and chain link. absolute tops.
I bought one of these:- http://www.anaconda.com.au/Product/Brands/Denali...
I changed the valve to a proper camelbak valve as the standard ones are crap. It fits a multi tool, spare tube and pump in easily and is cheap as. The pic makes it look like the tube comes from the bottom but it actually comes from over the shoulder. Why spend four times the amount for a Camelbak?
I have one of these for racing and shorter rides. It sits above your jersey pockets so you can still access them
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/HY266A01-...
For shorter lap races on relatively non-tech tracks like those at Yellomundee, I'd go bottle only. I did a teams race there earlier this year in 40C+ heat.
The Camelbak was hardly touched and made me unbearably hot. Mine is a M.U.L.E. Having nothing on my back and my crap in my pockets would have been much more comfortable, and therefore faster.
Ah, racing.
I remember that fondly. If I could just get this dodgy back sorted I might be able to do some. 
if you dont like carrying heaps of gear, use electrical tape and tape the tube, CO2 can and levers to your seat tube, that way leaves pockets free for gels for example.
Personally I normally stuff the gels up my knicks, distribute the weight between my two left and right side shirt pockets and then normally carry a 2nd bottle in the middle pocket if the feeds are quite a way apart for example if it was a marathon and didnt want to stop at the first transition.
Your doing the scott, at most your doing a lap or maybe a double, so one bottle should be enough and just ensure that you take gels before your laps as well.
I'm of the view that if you're doing the whole thing yourself you want as little weight on your body as possible. Any weight on your body adds to the weight on your backside, and it can get painful after a long ride.
I too prefer bottles, but relented and bought a 2L Camelbak Rogue recently, as with no guarantee of water on the course, its the only way I can carry enough water for the Cape to Cape later this month.
Like being able to sip along the way, and that there's no grit on the mouthpiece. Don't like the weight of a full bag on my sweaty back!
Thought I'd share a tip I saw on another forum recently - storing the bladder in the freezer between rides prevents the bugs growing that makes it go manky. Much easier than washing it out, sterilising, and hanging up to dry!
I also prefer my tiny 1L camelbak. Only 1/2 or 3/4 fill depending on how long a lap is, and it also holds a few other extras. (canisters, pump, whatever...)
I gave up using a bottle very quickly. Only useful for 50km or longer.
+2 for the Camelbak.
You can use your Camelbak to store lots of water if it is really, really hot weather. So having separate 1L, 2L and 3L bladders to put inside it as the need arises makes a lot of sense.
If you were going to use bottles, what if you were riding along on your first lap, the bottle fell off your bike, and you had to ride an hour in the high heat without any water? Crazy.
And further, most bikes will only hold 2 bottles, max. 2 x 800mL bottles is only 1.6L. This is not enough for a race, especially in hot weather.
Finally, don't listen to these people that say it is too hot, or uncomfortable to have a Camelbak on your back. That is utter rubbish. You hardly feel it at all. Plus, my Camelbak has saved me when falling off my bike onto my back countless times. You wouldn't want to fall off your bike onto some rocks, back first, without your Camelbak on. An absolute Godsend!
Anybody tried one of these?
http://www.camelbak.com/Sports-Recreation/Packs/...
I have a few packs for getting around. The one Brian recommended is great for short rides. I can fit a C02 kit it it, but not a pump
unless it's between the bladder and my back. I can shove a compression bandage up in one corner of it, and a tube in the other, with effort. The one Hawkeye mentioned is massive, especially for race laps of Yellomundee! The "Rogue" and the "Lobo" are more in-between. I use a Rogue as an all rounder. I allow about 500ml hour for recreational riding. The "Classic" also looks like a handy size.
what a great tip Mamil
cleaning the bladder is a pain and I always forget
I use a camelbak.... u get used to it on your back
on long rides i take a bottle to
Getting back to the original question. The rider is riding in a 24 hour race, of which the longest lap is 16km. If the rider will be doing it solo then why not grab a fresh water bottle for each lap. It would seem a bit pointless to carry a 3 litre camelback when you're going past the pits every 16km. Additionally, if you're carrying a small camelback then any time saved by not having to slow down to reach for a water bottle will be lost by the time required to swap to a full camelback or refill the one you're presently using. If you're in a team and only doing one lap at a time then for 16 km you could probably get away without having a water container at all, just hydrate well before and after your turn.
I believe you are obliged to carry water on each lap and the Scott course has a lot of climbing followed by fast down sections - neither ideal to grab a bottle and drink. Most of us do these events for fun and hardly threaten podium positions. The few seconds either way are not going to make any material difference, take whatever YOU feel most comfortable / familiar with. If you do go bottle take a big drink before you head out and then very little water is needed on the lap.
@Noel, it can fit a pump. There's also a loop to hold it.
Don't forget about carrying water is just not for what is planned. Yes a lap might only be 16kms and under an hour but have a shocker with a few punctures/mechanical an you could be out far longer.
I'd always carry enough for 2 laps even if doing one. So many times when your doing a team event you come into finish to find there's an issue with the next rider planned so you're sent back out for a double
Have had a bottle come out of ae. cage, on the Capital Punishment this year and had to ride the remaining 45k's on one bottle, wasn't to bad really. I used the aid stations to get water and it was fine.
As for only have 1.6l of fluid, that's enough for 2 hours maybe more, for a 100k marathon, I am always looking for sub 5 hour times, so from a hydration point of view, I need a max of 5 bottles, I ensure I hydrate well before the race and then depending on the transitions will work it out from there.
E.g. The Fling in 5 weeks, the transition is at the 34k mark, then at the 80k mark, so it's simple 1 bottle for the first 34km, then pick up two bottles at the transition and then 1 final bottle for the last 30k home.
I can see the benefits of a Camelback if for example your riding the GNR and you out on your own, cause yeah I guess you don't know where you can get water, but for racing its a no brainer.
If your doing a marathon in 8 hours, the reason to get quicker is so you don't have to carry all that extra water and gear. My theory is that yes you may suffer while your pushing hard but I would preference to suffer for 5 hours not 8.
Having a good chat last night to a canberra mate on his hydration strategy for the Scott (he's going Solo with no stops) and it's all bottles. Apparently after the start they have included a few k's of flat firetrails which will be perfect for eating and drinking.
One thing I've found with Camelbacks is you can drink too much, as silly as it seems, because it's there and quences the hurt. For 16km at the Scott, about an hours riding, 1 x 800ml bottle is about right at race pace (I find it perfect for 2 x race laps at Ourimbah).
In the scott take water but you won't need to drink much during the lap if you are hydrated before you go out. Sat afternoon if its hot is the only time you would need to drink a lot if your only doing one lap at a time.
At the moment I am riding 4 days a week in Canberra and I don't usually drink during the 1.5 hour ride although I always take some water. If I were doing the scott in a team I would have one or two drinks during a lap and then do most of my rehydration in the pits.
bottles vs camelbacks is a personal choice however during a lap race I prefer bottles as its easier to work out what you have left and how much you have consumed.
hey brian can you do a photo (or explain) one day how you attach your pump to the little pack? I have a loop on my little pack too but it seems to be more for a light or something. I can only seem to get a pump the pack by sticking it in with the bladder. Is that what you do when using the little pack? It seems uncomfortable. I did try a velcro method with the pump to the loop once but the pump wiggled about annoying me. If they had a special pump pocket on the outer of that little pack it would be great.
Not being able to carry my pump comfortably is the main reason I use my larger one mostly, even if it just a quick ride from my back gate. I'd use the smaller on more if I could find a better way to carry that pump, and I hate attaching anything to the bike.
The little pack is very good for warmer months, as it is so small. I know where all my local water taps are so it's easy to link them for long rides from home.
Here you go. I think we have different packs
Thanks Brian. The range is huge. Yours (2011 Charge) has that big handy pocket on the rear. That's great for a smaller pack option. Could fit a wind proof vest or a thermal in there easily.
This is my mini-pack ("Hydrobac")with the pump issue. It's like a kids one or something it's so small. The missus uses it sometimes so at least it's not wasted:
Here's my regular one (Rogue), which I love:
Looks are deceiving too. You would think the little one is more comfortable but recon my yellow mini one bounces around too much when getting air ect where as the Rogue is slim and sticks like glue.
Still, might get the tailor to sew a tube pocket (for a pump) onto the little yellow one to get more use out of it. Only cost about $5 for him to sew a patch onto it.
You certainly bond with your pack. When you do get stranded out the middle of nowhere alone, with a mechanical and its getting dark and you find in it what you need, and finally a rock that is strong enough to nearly straighten a derailleur hanger after you remove it after the sun goes down and you phone provides light, or using it to tie your bike to you as you climb a cliff (not recommended), or you find a pack of bubble gum in there you forgot about, or the first aid equipment to tend to a victim of a mossy creek crossing, or you keep whipping HSMBA cards of if like a croupier, a bond develops. It's saved me some long walks in the dark, in the middle of the jungle.
Osprey Hydrolics?
water bladder seems easier to remove/replace, solid spine board and magnetic clip for bite valve is handy.
What is the point of a chain link, without a chain breaker?
If you look very carefully in the gap between the hydration pack and the bottom zip pouch inside that area where I stuff in my raincoat and arm warmers etc I found on my camelback a little pocket and I put my pump in there. Check if yours has one as mine is a similar design to this one.
well its probably a little late now. But I didn't take any water for single laps. none....not even a water bottle. its only 40 min for red & 50 min for blue.....or faster if you really hammer it.
However I took the camel back on the dual night laps.
It all depends on your fitness as welll as what size team youre riding in. I can do 60 min without water....no probs. A double lap for me was roughly 1 hr 40 min. Thats too long without hydration or taking on food/gel.
most of the things you need for a single lap you can tape to your bike as well as carrining it in your jersey.
How good was the red lap.....Skyline & then The Luge......Yipeeeee!!!!!
I kinda agree, if your body is used to it, a 1 hour lap could be done without water.
I base this on the fact that I commute for about 50min at a pace that burns kcal at more or less the same rate (Commuter cup racing!) that I mtb at and I rarely touch the bottle that I carry (it's really more for the protein recovery drink when Im "arrived"). but if your doing multiple laps it may hurt you later on?