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Are 26" XC racers redundant?
Having spent the last few rides on my new big wheeler Hard tail I am now seriously questioning whether there is any future for high spec 26" hard tail racers.
I may take this even further and ask whether the 26" xc duallie race bike's days are also numbered.
On the big wheels a slight loss of immediate acceleration is the only noticeable downside to the big wheel format that I have noticed, the new bike is smoother & faster plus cost 30% less than my 1kg lighter 26" racer.
Personally I don't notice any loss of manoeuvrability (In fact the new rig feels super stable as well as agile) and I am getting air as well/badly as ever.
Maybe this is because I am 6'2" and perhaps smaller riders would find 26" wheels beneficial but when it comes to hammer time for me I'm now sold on the bigger tubs.
I'm already contemplating selling my light 26" XC race duallie and starting another project a 29er 100/120mm travel duallie.
Btw, I haven't come over all evangelical re "The New Big wheel Messiah". I plan to keep my 26" 5" travel duallie and pimped Ti hardtail as they ride great.
Your thoughts?
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If you look at the Top 5 of the Fling this year, they were all on 26er's that to me says it all really.
I guess it comes down to the course that your racing.
Of the men top three - Andy Blair was on a 29er, so was Ben Mather. The winner - Dylan Cooper was on a 26er.
Womens - Jenny rode a 29er, but 2nd place (Peta) was on a 26er, and Becky was also on a 26er.
Dan Mac just won the last round of the National XC on 29er, but Jenni King was on a 26er.
The next day, Paul VD Ploeg rode a 26er to a win in what was a short marathon.
I dont think there is conclusive evidence from race results as to what is fastest - even on the same course.
I think it depends on the course, 29ers for fire roads and 26 for single track.
Watching the coverage of the pros at the world champs last year it still seemed 50/50. A good rider will be fast no matter what they ride. The positive frame of mind of believing you are on the fastest bike might be more beneficial than any actual advantages of one bike over another.
How have you been tony and how was your 12 hour this year?
Good topic, and one that i am looking into presently. point of interest whilst skimming through the latest Bicycle buyers guide. I noticed that majority of manufaturers are putting most of their high end spec bikes into the 29er field. when looking at the high end spec of some brands in 26', the available models were quite limited, but if you look at the same brand in 29er, the selection was of a much higher spec. look at avanti for an example if my memory serves me well.
pete
29ers are suited to the endurance style events that use less singletrack due to the fact that so much more passing is required with the huge amount of riders.
Fire roads, logging tracks, roads are used more and more for endurance style events, as compared to the good old fashioned xc racing. The new style of racing just cannot handle large numbers of riders on single track.
Lets just call it cylocross instead of mtb.
Bring back the old style of xc racing and reduce the fields to a lower number like 30 with a more technical course.
Maybe Im old fashioned, But Id like to see the technicality bought back into the sport.
Wal, Stop being such an old fogey.
My Hardtail 29er is vastly more capable in any kind of trail than my 1996 GT was, back when the tracks were 'technical'. Watching old world cups with Cadel racing show them running about as much as riding in the techy stuff anyway, while Kulhavy just dominates it. So bikes are getting faster and better all the time, and the riders are becoming more specialised at a particular discipline.
And as to bringing back technical, the new style of Downhill is far more technical than the days of Nico.
I think its still horses for courses, and if you look at the compromise to get Willow Koerber on a 29er, I think thats stupid, but for tall guys, then yeah, thats the way to go for sure.
I think to see me on a 29er (5'7") would be like a midget on a clown bike. still keen to give em a go, though would be interesting to see how they fair against my 26" when it comes to launching and changing directing mid turn/mid launch.
pete
there's still plenty of options for technical XC events at the club level, mostly with 30 or so riders, that do tend to suit 26ers more. It's just that there's a further niching of the sport with the addition of mega-marathon events which indeed suit 29ers. As with most things these days, in line with the specialization of events you get specialization of bikes
Being 5'7" and on my second 29r I wouldn't go back to a 26r UNLESS I was just going to ride XC race, tight single track with little climbing (e.g. the Kal Circuit). If I was a few inches taller I think a 29r would be just as good as a 26r on tight stuff. But I find the only place I lose out to riders of equivalent ability is in the really tight stuff. But there again I wasn't that good in tight stuff on a 26r - lol.
Innocent question: why hasn't 29 made it into downhill racing? Or has it & I haven't noticed?
The bigger the hoop the weaker and flexier it will get. That's why deep dish carbon rims are becoming popular in road racing. As well as aero advantages, they are super stiff due to the shorter spoke length.
Only if the sales figures for the major manufacturers dictate it.
@Gazza - Aha! Makes sense.
As for the actual debate at hand, it reminds me of about 5 years ago in the whole hard tail vs full susser debate. You can't actually draw a conclusion based on race results. It's whatever you feel comfy on and suits your riding style. The dude that pedals faster for longer wins.
One thing that does stand out is the rapid improvement in technology. Your pride & joy from 3 years back is now outdated. I certainly notice a big difference hopping on any new 26" or 29" over an older bike.
I believe the other issue they are having is packaging; in order to allow the bigger wheels to move 6" plus without clouting the frame the bike ends up being too large
You're right there also, marketing is a big thing with the 29ers and the bike companies try anything to make you want the "next big thing"
Hardtails were redundant 7 years ago...
and 29ers, meh the fad drawing to a close. Marketeers have begun convincing plebs that 650b is where it's at. Weirdos have been running them for decades, hipsters cottoned on 2 years ago, marketeers smell blood in the water and it's time for those easily lead to jump on the 650b band wagon
http://bicycling.com/blogs/thestraightdirt/2012/...
650b back, 29r front would not surprise me in 2014/5. Dirt motorbikes had different front and rear wheel sizes for couple of decades at least. Never really understood why MTB's didn't try the same - though one reason may have been tyre availability. IF 650b's get going there wont be any reason not to try 29r front and 650 (or 26r) rear - especially if they can produce adjustable front geometry - which some have. Believe some small US manufacturers may have already tried the two sizes.
May you live in interesting times
Hi Pete. Yes, all good mate apart from bits of myself that go wrong every so often. This month it's the circa 1964 knee!
Good to see a pile of responses with such differing views. I agree totally with those who say that the rider is still the most important factor, it is, just like most physical sports but hey, getting an extra few % performance for the same input is always going to be popular, it's what progress is all about & drives the technology & industry on. There is also the lag in reciprocal components like tyres & forks plus a learning curve as to the ideal angles & strength to weight balance. The bigger format is only now starting to work properly.
Btw to the Ludites out there. I remember pro mtbers rubbishing suspension & disc brakes way back in the late 80's early 90's saying that they were just a fad but who doesn't have these now? Fair enough back then they were pretty crap & heavy but R&D plus some new materials & machining put them right.
I wouldn't dismiss 29" downhill bikes either but it will take a big commitment from manufacturers and i dont see rolling efficiency as a major necessity on a 16+kg bike running 2.5" knobby tyres.
One thing that I have also noticed on this kind of thread is that those who are pro 29 have generally owned one or more 26ers prior to their 29er. Those staunch anti 29 have often not owned one and some haven't even ridden one. Has anyone owned then dropped a 29er to go back to smaller wheels?
As for 650...... Would work but lets see if anyone takes it up. As I see it it's for fence sitters & is not required.
All the best T
Out on my 26" duallie tomorrow:-)
I race on a 29er but I think it's more to do with the set up of the bike that the wheel size. I also keep my treasured 26er in tip top condition and it gets as much use as the big wheels. The 29er for faster tracks, Terrey Hills, Awaba, etc. and the 26er is still the bike of choice for the Dam, Red Hill, etc. They both have their place!
Now, I just figured out where I'll store the crosser that should come next but where will I keep this 650b that you speak of......?!
I have a 2008 Scott Spark 10 with full XTR etc. Last year in June I bought an Antem 29er and have used the Scott about twice since (anyone want to buy a 2nd hand Scott Spark?). I use it everywhere from Manly Dam, Red Hill, Cascades, Terrey Hills, Appin etc. and love the bike.... even though I look like an kid riding his dad's bike
. I would not go back to a 26 and would recommend to anyone anyone. I managed to set a PB at Manly Dam of 28:48 despite it weighing about 1.5kg more than the Scott. Only downside of the Anthem 29er is that it is farkin ugly, but given that half the world has one, we can all look ugly together 
Not sure how much I will be loving it on the Woomerah Range at Dirtworks this year though.....anyone have a SMALL Secialized Epic S-Works 29er they can lend me??? 
29ers will rule the "popular" xc world and 650b will rule the DH / FR world within the next 5 years
...thats an easy one. Just sell both bikes, and buy the S-Works Epic! It is the ultimate shed downsizer.
It breaks all the rules of bikes as it basically represents n-1.
If you are even half serious, there are still a few 2011 S-works Epics out there for sale at ridiculous prices (the frame and wheels and components are the same). It'd be under 10kg in a small.
I can't seem to link the picture to this post. But if you look at the Banshee Boy Imagine in recent posts. You can see my 26" dually and my 29 hardtail side by side. The 29er has a shorter wheel base, bottom bracket height are the same, the 26er has a 150mm fork and the 29er has a 120mm fork. There is know where i wouldn't ride the 29er that I would take the 26er. I prefer riding the 29er more, it handles technical tracks no problems. 29ers are built mostly as XC racers, but we are starting to see more trail/ all mountain 29ers, slacker geo, bigger forks, stronger lighter wheels. Check out Banshees new all mountain 29er the Prime, Niner also has one. Once these take off the other big brands will copy like usual.The reason we haven't seen more agressive 29ers before, isn't the bike designers, but the component designers, 160mm+ 29er downhill dual crown fork??, Fox has released there new 140mm F34 29er fork. This is the year for more trail based 29ers.
26" wheels are just training wheels for 29ers.
XTC Composite 29er are currently $2.5k, throw on a pair of Stans Crest or Gold 29er rims and you have a sub 11kg bike, throw on XTR and swap out the cockpit and your looking at one seriously light bike.
Seriously considering ordering one now myself.
Go on Andy, you know you want to
I am considering it for sure.
They're very tempting, they're a lot of bang for the buck. My brother works in a Giant shop and they just took a XL and threw Stans on it, it came in at 10.5kg with no other changes. You would imagine with a smaller frame size, a bit of carbon and some love sub-10kg is feasible.
I just converted from my Anthem 26er to an Anthem 29er 2012 a few weeks ago.
Initial thoughts...I find the 29er smoother and more stable on fast downhill and rocky stuff which is what I hated about the 26er. The 26er I felt was trying to buck me off - way too twitchy as a trails bike but great in a race. I never felt comfortable on the large size 26er but instantly feel at home on the medium 29er even in single track. It does feel slower uphill but the clock says otherwise and overall I am faster. Perhaps its the longer wheelbase or the SIDS or it fits my 6ft 1 body better or that I got my 29er down to 10.5kgs so its lighter than the 26er was at 11.3kg...not sure but happy with my purchase.
Recently, I got a pros perspective. When I was debating my purchase I got to do a GIANT master class with Jared Rando. We got to play chasings on his 26er vers my loaner 29er. I asked the inevitable question and he said he prefers 26ers. He said in his opinion 29ers suit beginners and intermediates because they are easier to ride and so give better confidence.
I am an intermediate so he might be right.
PS wanna buy some 26inch tyres ?? http://nobmob.com/node/33932
Chitts I have a SMALL Secialized Epic S-Works 29er - but soz can't lend this one as its been 'modified'. My main complaint with 29rs is the stupid (to me) 2*10 gearing they come with. The 24/38 is just too high when compared to a 26r, especially for a weak climber
. The newer 22/36 are still higher than the 26r. So modified mine to be a SRAM XX 3*10 with 20/30/40 rings so now I have gearing the same as a 26r. Noticed that some manufacturers are bringing out five arm spider ringsets of 20/30/40 for 29rs - about time.
First bike was a S/s 29 er few years ago, mainly cos I came from fixed gear n road n they seemed like the cool thing. Was great to roll over things and climbed awesome. Bu couldn't keep up with the crew I started riding with especially on techno tight stuff. Was too long and the wheels flexed too much, fork was sht and good tyres were hard to find. I love the twitchiness and chuck ability of my 120mm front 26 hard tail. I now keep up with most of myates and yeh it is a fun bike. I would consider building up another s/s steel 29er or 650 as a second bike, as I recon that is where they are at, the simplicity, big wheels mixed with 1 gear works well and it seems all my bad points above have all been waived via technology and new products, I.e. geo is tighter on the frames and after research the frames are not just guesses on geo, wheels, forks and types are way better and plenty of options so who knows. Fun bikes for flowey trails
Iike the old blue tag or kala circuit. But for trails like the old white tag or carter road or pines don't think the small wheels can be beaten.
Good that people are trying different things and like different things. What annoys me tho is when you go into a shop and they tell you to buy a 29er cos they are the only thing to buy these days without even asking what sort of riding you do.
recently got a 29er anthem - and previous bikes have been a cannondale rush and still current reign - both 26ers
the 29 is different, adn i remember the places where its easier - no doubt though, its way less plush than any of my previous rides, and the front end is less easy to pick up and place - but you dont really need to as much. Its interesting that only after a few hours i have changed my lines, and i also feel the need to keep the 29 moving.
It "feels" quicker up the hill - but then its a more agressive positioned bike than anything else I've had - and geo makes heaps of difference. the handling however isnt there compared to the cannondale - the higher centre of gravity is notcieable.
most of the absolute converts i read or see, have gone from one type of bike to another that happens to be a 29er - its great that we appreciate the new bike - but you still have to be realistic, gut reactions, feels, n=2 circuit comparos dont show nor prove anything, except to the writer
Demoing an anthem x29 at the moment and can only say climbing through rocky technical stuff is a breeze as going flat out on fire trail, haven't done to much single trail yet but that will change on the weekend. The ultimate test will be doing the karri cup.
For those thinking of converting find a good store that will let you demo a bike over a few weeks and adjust the cockpit to your style.....
Teaser 29ROCKS! DH session with Cedric Gracia & Simon André on 29ers from Enduro Tribe / VTT29 on Vimeo.
I took my 26" 10.8kg Yeti ASR sl around the Kalamunda circuit this eve/arvo & smashed my prev PB on 2 sections.
Kamikaze 10:58 & Horney Devil 5:09. I put this down to the handling, especially the ability to find grip both ends due to the suspension & Schwalbe's finest plus a light wheelset that accelerates quickly.
It was also a buzz with my mate attacking whenever I eased off...
Will try it on the big wheeled hard tail next time...
Eric from crank n cycle smashed a whole crowd of mtbikers on his pugsley a couple of years back...
Learn your ride and use it properly. Don't blame your tools. Practice makes perfect. they all ring a bell.
Erik just got a new Pugsly with even wider tyres than a normal Pugsly.
dirty :0
Gracia throws some of the most stylish whips out... the ugliness of the attempted whips on the tall boy in the vid speaks volumes....
Cool ... I didn't know I could do that with my Tallboy
Does it seem like a lot of what's going on here is just an extension of people's personal experience with a particular bike, being extended as a generalisation across the entire class of bike?
"xxx 29er > yyy 26er, therefore 29er is king" etc.
Hi Maxfacta
I agree that there is undoubtedly some generalisation especially with the 26" class where there are duallies that range from fast & light racers to full on downhill rigs and hardtails that range from jump bikes to 9kg carbon racers.
That said I think that most people on here are a bit more savvy as far as bikes are concerned and would not compare a Boxxer equipped Giant Reign to an XTC carbon 29er.
Also as most 29ers are currently within the trail bike/race category we can compare like for like to a certain degree.
I have now ridden off road circuits on several of the current top end 29ers both HT and duallie including Giant, Trek and Specialized. I wasn't convinced that the dual suspension rear end is entirely sorted yet but felt definite advantages from the bigger wheels so built myself a hardtail trail/race bike.
I have been comparing this with a 10.5kg Ti hardtail with similar front travel, an 11kg Yeti ASR sl duallie racer(4" travel) and a Specialized Enduro (5" travel)
I think that they are similar enough in weight, brakes, tyres, quality of components & purpose to give realistic comparisons.
The bottom line is that although the new bike is very good it doesn't really surpass any of the other bikes entirely.
I thought that it had bounced the Ti hard tail out of the picture for a while but have recently found that on tight stuff where there is a lot of hard braking then accelerating the 26 gives a sharper, more engaging ride (And it's beautiful) where the 29er occasionally felt like a giraffe at a gymkhana!!
I haven't found a good reason to reduce my flock....