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Handlebar Dynamics
NB: Originally posted elsewhere on the Global Riders Network and appears via syndication.
I've been having the same problem for a while now and enough is enough, every time i hit up the local single track my handlebars are too dam wide and i keep clipping trees (although not stacking, it bloody hurts). But not only that, when i do tight single track climbing its quite combersome but thats probably more to do with my geometry but handlebars will effect it? so heres my question - obviously i can go narrower bars but how will it effect my bikes handling.
A bit of a briefing on my bike. Quite a slack head angle 68˚ i think. 150mm travel all round short stem 50mm? etc etc..
Cheers.
Jono.
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How wide are your bars now?
730? I just measured
while the dh crowd are going for bigger bars I find 710s are good for me.
Move your grips in and give it a bit of a try before you cut.
The wider bars gets you down over the front a bit more and gets your elbows nice and wide for the gnarly stuff.
Up hill, with that short stem is always going to be a compremise and you'll need to adapt body position. Slide forward a bit on the seat and drop your elbows down and in a bit to keep the weight forward and prevent the front lifting
Just talking to a mate today who did a test tie on a bike setup with 800 wide bars, and he ht a tree in only a 5k loop - same for another mate who rode the same bike lol.
Lots of emotive language used to promote wider bars, I clip trees with 670s regularly, and I've never thought to myself wow these wider bars are awesome! If you are clipping trees, mid 600s seems normal , 600 a bit narrow. Narrower equals more direct handling, ie smaller movements of the hand create bigger movements at the wheel.
i was thinking the whole ride today that my bars are too wide. besides clipping trees on the single i found when i used a "normal" riding position the front was a bit washy but that could also be pressures? i kept pushing myself back and i found that helped so maybe a bit in each side will do the trick but with the slack head angle im not sure how much is too much i guess thats experimenting thou.
I just felt like i had too much weight over the front?? But heres everyone telling me thats what you want?
The more weight you put on the front the better your front end grip will be.... up to a point.
700-710 is a good width for trails around the beaches. I run 710 on both my AM (60mm stem) and XC (90mm stem) rigs.
Do what Flynny suggested and move your grips in before cutting.
Nobody can say X width is fine for Y tracks. It comes down entirely to your body, your riding style and ultimately what feels right.
I run 800mm on both my trail and DH bikes. And if Easton made an 850mm I'd probably give them a try. Jumping on a mates bike who is my height but running 720mm bars and feels unsafe due to the lack of leverage and control, particularly at high speed and through technical sections. Interestingly, after trying my bike he went up in size on his bar.
I am curious though as to which tracks you ride that aren't compatible with your bar.
Matt, agree it comes down to style as well as where you ride. I almost exclusively ride in trees, and mostly on tracks built by Mtb ers. The way to keep a moto off your Mtb track, is to put tight turns in it going up hills and through gaps in trees ( motos used to have much wider bars than bikes). The other thing about motos is they can't be held over to the side to get through a gap, so tracks are designed that way in moto problem areas.
Body wise, your brain knows the width of your shoulders and where they are in space much better than it knows where your bars are. I suspect that riding with wide bars and grips inboard might mean quite a few more tree impacts than with your hands out there.
A 800mm we are now at the same width as wide moto bars that are typically in the 760mm range and have been for years. On a 130kg bike a little leverage helps . Perhaps stability in bumpy stuff is what you get with wide bars, what you lose is nimbleness and tree strikes - probably most important if you do epic rides is how is the comfort of the cockpit .
.. on my Niner, because of the occasional tree clip and feeling I was slowing too much in tight single track during races as a result. I had some bars that width that I'd taken off another bike when I first got it (thinking they were too narrow!) and didn't need to chop the old ones. At first it felt a bit twitchy and certainly sketchy on loose / rocky downhills, and required a bit more muscle to keep on line on steep uphills, but I have since "adjusted" to the set up and like it.
@pharmaboy.
I understand your POV re motos. Its always a shame when they get in there and tear up tracks**.
Re your comment on shoulder width, you're correct re the proprioception aspect however don't forget that once you're in the correct attack position, your elbows should be flared considerably wider than shoulder width. Therefore when riding through an area littered with trees you need to be going off where your elbows are, not shoulders. Re the moving of the grips inwards, your elbows should dictate the required width of passage for your body (along with your overall body height when cornering hard. At 6'4", I have to get down low in quite a few hard, fast corners to not only maintain a good COG but also avoid clipping my head on branches!).
There have been a few comments about "this is a good width" but there has been no real explanation or consideration around the points I made earlier. At the risk of also being presumptuous, Jonathan's Stumpjumper has 150mm of travel and a 50mm stem. That to me suggests a fairly aggressive trail bike as opposed to a 10kg XC whippet.
I was more concerned that those new to MTB could read these comments, head out to a local track with bars of "X" width (too narrow) and have an uncomfortable, uncontrolled experience based on what works for a small number of people given their personal circumstances. I had to learn the hard way from well meaning mates who were, in some cases, half my weight and almost a foot shorter than me. One even suggested running my rear tyre at 60PSI due to my weight!!
Jonathan, I have a few bars lying around ranging from around 680, 700/710, to 745. I have a 60mm stem (a Specialized which allows 4 different angles to be run depending on the shim insert used). If you would like to borrow them to see which feels best, you're welcome to. No need to buy them - just see what works for you.
** A friend and I were having a look around Menai on Saturday at the recent rebuilding work (he is involved in getting the area opened back up to MTBers and organises a lot of the track building working parties).
As we were finishing up and heading back to the car, we could see a police patrol car about 300m up the road, lights on, pulled over - probably giving someone a speeding ticket. As we arrived at my car, two guys on motos came out of the bush area and approached the main road (we'd heard them revving hard whilst we were in the bush). As soon as they saw the patrol car, they took off along the main road. They were MOVING! Just as we lost sight of them, the patrol car went past us even faster. After packing up and getting into the car, we found them about 5km down the road. The police had managed to pull over one of them. The bike didn't seem to have any registration plate.
If he'd had a couple of brain cells to rub together, he and his mate could have just cruised down the road (not revving like hell and gaining the attention of the police) and if they knew they were being chased or even in danger, they could have easily ducked into one of the many access points in the bush and lost the police in 3 seconds flat.
So hopefully he will be prosecuted for riding in an illegal area, riding an unregistered vehicle, speeding, riding in a reckless manner and will probably be obligated to dob on his mate.
I have 710mm bars on my XC bike and couldn't bring myself to go any narrower than that, my AM hardtail is 760 and the DH bikes are 780mm wide. I think quite a few beginner riders think their bars are too wide as they don't seem to realise you can lean the bike over to avoid punching trees.
Yep it is my stumpy evo - it is quite an aggressive xc bike with pretty slack geometry, 2x10 set up 150mm travel etc etc. I just find when in really tight single track climbing (Lots of trees, tight hairpins) the bike lumbers quite a lot and is very slow to respond but then on the downhill i find myself trying to sit back on my bike as i find the front is a bit wishy washy and when i lean back the bike is a lot more flickable and grippy maybe thats just fine tuning the pressures but i still find i cant use the trail how i like to just because my bars are quite wide and i often find my arms scraping through a lot of trees and bar ends clipping big trees.
On really fast descends i've never once felt shaky, unstable or out of control.
Also thanks for the offer matt P! Where abouts are you, i might need to take you up on that offer
Cheers.
But often ride on the dark side of the bridge.
As said, it is a very personal thing bar width.
I've had 800 bars on my 4x bike, but even in an extremely agressive riding position, they were too wide, cut them to 750, and they still felt a bit wide and hurt my thumbs pretty badly when riding AM style trails and just never felt right on the track, I tried different brake lever angles, I tried different bar angles, but nothing made them feel good, it may have been a sweep issue, but my 710 bars felt a heap better and a lot more comfortable. As for Dh capability, I don't have any probs at all smashing down loose fast sections and I'm running 36's (160mm). I think under 700 it starts to get too narrow for fast AM style riding.