Tubeless?? - Stan's No Tubes

I recently saw it for $160 and thought this system looks good for a lot less money. http://farkin.net/forums/showthread.php?t=128521... I've just used molding latex in a non tubeless crossmark tyre on a tubeless rim and it works great, so now I'm thinking of doing the above system to my other wheels.
John

I've just kitted out my DH bike with No tubes.

Dropped a heap of weight as I was running the DH tubes. Easy enough to fit, didn't even need to use a compressor to seal them (jagged it with the floor pump)

Bought from JensonUSA for US$60 (plus shipping). Works well with all Tubeless UST tyres but its a bit of trial and error with standard tyres depending on the quality of the tyre bead and sidewall. I have been able to mount Schwalbe and Specialized standard tyres on DT Swiss rims with a floor pump and Stans kit relatively easily and never had a pinch flat.

There is a weight saving with standard tyres as the rim strips weigh about 50 grams and the sealant about 60 grams per wheel which is less than a standard tube which runs at around 200 grams. If you use UST tyres the weight saving isnt as great or it could be heavier but you may be able to get away without using sealant.

I just installed a Stan's kit two weeks ago. They hold air fine and it is great running lower pressures and not getting flats.

I used UST tyres on the recommendation of lots of people. By the time you install the rim strips, liquid and have heavier tyres I don't think that you save much weight. Check out the website to find out more about them http://www.notubes.com/ .

can you install a tubeless system when you have a schrader valve hole in the rim? its an oldish Mavic D321 rim.
Isn't the whole point of Stan's kit that you can use any rims and tyres - not only UST tyres?
Stan's promote weight loss in the wheels of 100 - 400g.
The aim for me of getting tubeless is to loose weight on the wheels.
I'm not concerned about flats. I've had my Kona for 14 months and never had a flat.

I've used Stan's and its very good, but have switched back to tubes.

To understand the pros/cons you'll need to understand a few things about the system:
1. Essentially you install a rubber rim lining, and seal the air gaps between the tyre and the rim (lining) using sealant.
2. The sealant is poured on the inside of the tyre, the tyre is inflated using large volume of air, and the sealant then does its job of filling the cracks. The sealant dries quickly so as to maintain the seal before the air runs out.
3. The key ingredient is *air pressure*. The sealant only fills the gaps, but cannot maintain a seal unless there is sufficient pressure to keep the tyre bead firmly fitted to the rubber rim lining.
4. PUNCTURE flats seal quickly because you carry excess sealant in the tyre that fill the gaps. Air pressure helps a lot in this as the escaping air pushes the liquid sealant directly into the gap.
5. The sealant does not dry quickly or firmly enough to seal LARGE holes e.g. slashed tyres, although this situation is unlikely on Aussie trails.
6. However, the system is prone to failure if there is insufficient liquid sealant or air pressure in the tyre. Running lower than 20psi can cause the tyre bead to "fold" at the seal with the rim lining, and there's no inflating that tyre without a spare tube or high volume pump.
7. Sealant *will* dry out and require replacing, on an average of every 3 months. There doesn't seem to be a way of injecting sealant without having to deflate the tyre completely, even by pouring it through the valve stem.

The system *does* work fantastically and it was a joy to run low pressures and not worry about pinch flats. But personally i like "no maintenance" systems and didn't like having to re-install the system every 3 months. I also didnt like spending $$ on extra sealant every 3-6 months either.

Note: i'm not sure about other systems though, this was just the Stan's I used.

Tubeless long term report.. Wouldn't go back.

I started with Crossmax UST wheels and UST (Panaracer Fire-XC) tyres.
Worked OK, but heavy. Added Stans liquid and no punctures, just used to see where puncture would have been by pinhead wet spots now and again.

From here on, I have never used a tubeless tyres again, but careful not to use tyres on the 'not recommended list' on stans website. My main reason for going back to std tyres is weight.
Whatever the marketing hye about better rolling, 100-250g is a LOT more rotating weight to accelerate and maintain speed on. IMHO, the rolling resistance of lighter tyres is better than the rolling resistance of heavier tyres - make sense huh!

Then moved to Mavic 717 (I think, probably got the numbers wrong, lightweight XC rim)
Used Stans rim strips, with sealant and standard tyres for less weight.
Worked ok, but a real hassle to change tyres as the strip needed thorough cleaning every time, and stuck to the tyre, so came away from the rim when changing.

Then went to Stans Olympic rims, with stans rim strips.
Worked very well, strip still a hassle, but sometimes needed (the strips) to get tyres to seal.
I used to use a floor pump, but bought a $99 compressor from bunnings

Then, decided to ditch the strips and use Stans 'Yellow tape' - 5g rather than 50g!
Have done this on the olympic rims, and a set of Stans 355 arch rims too.
Works well for most tyres, some are a bit of a hassle to air up at first, but once done work ok. (see tryre prep hint below)
I've also got a set of Stans Freeride rims (28mm wide) and using the rim strips on them, as I like to run them at around 28psi.

A few comments:
- Never had a 'puncture' in 4 years, but have had 2 sidewall slashes that couldn't be sealed so had to fit a tube trailside.
- Some tyres are porous and take a few days to seal properly (crossmark exception, nevegal, small block8 )
- I often fit a tyre onto an old rim with a tube for a few days at 60psi to flatten the moulding bumps before fitting tyres I have know to be 'loose' and hard to seal.
- The ultra low pressure thing is hype, 28 is as low as I need to go on NSW trails
Usually run 32 f 34 r for 78Kg rider. Any lower and you risk dinging your rims & 'burping'
- Not every non-ust tyre will air up, some specialised are a bit loose (adrenalin, enduro)
- I broke the bead on a kevlar high roller trying to seat the bead at 50psi
- I always go by Stans recommendations of 40psi max,
- For something really out there - I once ran Michelin slicks on my crossmax rims at 80psi for a few months, but the pressure was too high for stans to seal holes, it would push through, and slowly go down.
- And, yes you do need to replace the fluid after 3 months in summer, and top up in winter.

My front race wheel is a 330g olympic rim with 480g crossmark exception, 5g of tape and 60g of sealant! Rear wheel is the same with 452g rim.

I'm kind of lucky to be able to build my own wheels, and experiment. Currently running 3 sets of Stans rims on Hope Pro II hubs, as race, trail and big hit, and the old crossmax's as road wheels on my singlespeed.

It's a fun thing to do, you will be frustrated with some tyres, and it's a bit of a knack to mount 'loose' tyres, but once you get used to lighter weight and no punctures you'll be converted!

W.

I have used tubeless on 3 different rims - 2 of these are specific UST and the other is converted with a kit.

Have to say it's much easier to get a seal on the UST specific ones, but once sealed there is no difference (well - regarding the tire staying there that is).