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What are the best tyres for XC??
NB: Originally posted elsewhere on the Global Riders Network and appears via syndication.
Can anyone please recommend some good XC tyres for a reasonable price?
Should you run different front and rear tyres?
Do you need specific makes of tyre to use tubeless?
Does anyone know where I can find tyres online (need in a week)?
I have heard that Stans conversion kit (I think its called) is best to use for converting to tubeless?
Sorry if questions have been answered previously- there was some discussion of tyres 6 months ago and I am not sure if this would still be up to date.
Thanks for all your info!!
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my favourite's 1,2,3!
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?M...
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?M...
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?M...
LBS should have some of them, but they are not cheap.... well in Australia anyway.
the one I will have soon:
http://www.bike-mailorder.de/shop/MTB/Reifen-Sch... white side wall!!!!
Bernd
A lot of people use Maxxis tyres on their XC bikes.
In particular the Maxxis Crossmark and Larsen. Another popular one is the Maxxis Ignitor but that is probably best as a front tyre. I initially had Crossmarks front and back but I found it a bit lacking in grip at the front. I then put a Ignitor on which helped a lot. Currently I run an Ardent converted to tubeless up front and that's another step up in grip again.
Tubeless specific tyres somtimes have the UST acronym in their name to say they are tubeless. They have tougher sidewalls and the rubber is less porous than normal tyres to hold air better.
Non-tubeless rims and tyres will need the Stan's kit to convert it to a UST wheelset. Detailed video's on how to do this can be found on their website
http://www.notubes.com/support_movies.php
For tubeless info, your best off getting the attention of the one they call Whisperer...
For regular tyres, here goes.
Torpedo 7 has tyres and deliver pretty quick. If you're in a hurry, go to your favourite shop.
For XC I like the following;
Specialized; Fast Trak and The Captain. Can be as cheap as $50 for the wire bead type and heads north from there all the way to S-Works 2Bliss. Rolls fast, best on hardpack.
WTB; Wolverine, Velociraptor (F & R specific ) and Exiwolf. About $60. The Wolverine is best on dry, gravel hardpack. The other two are good everywhere and the Velociraptor sheds mud well. The rear is like a bulldozer track and climbs very well.
Maxxis; Larssen, Crossmark and Monorail. Different types available and can be over $80.
Kenda; The almighty Nevegal. The most common OEM tyre and works well everywhere.
You mustn't be afraid to spend up big on tyres. It's the only thing between the ground and the rest of your bike. They help protect an expensive wheelset. Choosing a lesser tyre based on price is a disaster. A quality tyre will last a long while. Look for good puncture protection, too.
Unless a tyre is sold as F & R then don't worry too much about mixing tyres, just use a matched pair. It'll take a while before you'll be able to form an opinion on what works best. Bigger sizes get through nasty terrain easier, are tougher and the weight penalty is small.
Enjoy your new tyres.
Beth has forgotten to mention she is a bit of a lightweight (I mean she is small), and I would assume speed and low rolling resistance are higher up on the list than all out grip for aggressive riding.
Beth - because of this I would imagine you don't need to have adventures in UST as you don't often get pinch (or any) flats. Or do you?
As others have said - popular combos are (and I have this on the Rush) Maxxis Crossmark on the front, Maxxis Larsen on the rear (never put a Larsen on the front!). Ignitor on the front will give better grip but when it lets go isn't as predictable. I have a Monorail but haven't tried it yet but imagine it will go well as a rear tire on hard pack. Steve01 ran one on the rear at Lisdale on the weekend and didn't crash so think that says something!
I also like Maxxis high roller for more grip on the rear, or Kenda Nevegal for more grip on the front (although they work well there - Nevegal wear very fast on the rear so won't put another that end). The more grip you get the more rolling resistance you'll have as a rule of thumb.
Maxxis can be had from T7, often on sale:
http://www.torpedo7.com.au/shop/bike/tyres-mtb
Although to be fair, they are also reasonably priced from most LBS too. In case you didn't gather, Maxxis seem to have the Aussie tire market sewn up.
Everyone that uses Schwalbe tires raves about them but reckon they are a bit pricy.
Oh - you'll want kevlar bead in all these, not wire (too heavy). You will probably also get away with Maxxis Exception series (super light weight) for circuit racing but I wouldn't trust an Exception in an Enduro event or on epic rides (think about a sidewall tear 40Km up GNR - ouch!).
Whisperer will have a lot to say about this - listen well to the wise one!
I take it you are referring to the Ottway (crazy lady
)?
The organisers recommend using Vredestein tires - Tiger Claw and/or Killer Bee (http://www.vredestein.com/Tweewielers_Bandgroepe...) but it all depends on the weather...
If it's wet, then you want a rolling tyre that is suited for wet boggy conditions. If it's dry, then you want something that's good in the sand. As it's not easy (or cheap) to have the 'right' tyre for each type of course and condition, you can always go for the general condition tyre and hold thumbs.
It is also relative though because of riding styles, budgets and skill level. You also need to factor in rider size and what pressure you are running the tires.
You personally can get away with running much lower pressure in your tires than most people and potentially go for fast rolling tyre.
I am a fan of Maxxis tires (quality and price - http://www.maxxis.com/Bicycle/Mountain.aspx) and mainly use CrossMarks UST (front and back). Larsen TT (on the back), Monorail & Ignitor (on the front) are some other popular combinations in the Maxxis offering. Maxxis offer standard tires, eXCeption series (light weight racing tyre) and UST tyres (heavier but are a tubeless tyre i.e. to be used with a UST rim).
As mentioned, Stans is tops for converting to tubeless...
T7 (http://www.torpedo7.com.au/division/bike/menu/01...) has a fairly good selection on offer and if you ordered this week, they should arrive by middle of next week...
Good luck!
What are your riding conditions? You may need to describe where you are riding before you get a relevant answer. XC riding is performed on a very diverse range of trails.
Hi Beth,
For 'everything you need to know about tubeless' in my blog:
http://nobmob.com/node/6453
But on those weird tyres you put tubes in.....
(Joking)
I've tried a real range of tyres and conditions (as rob has alluded to above, thanks rob!), and found it's a real case of 'it depends'.
As you've seen may people have run Maxxis crossmax, larson, ignitor, monorail and hi-rollers for racing.
Kenda has Nevegals and small block 8s, and some older ones that are poular too.
The are some popular schwalb tyres
Continental do some good ones, and the list goes on.
Depending on where you are in your skill development, you've got weight, rolling resistance and cornering grip as your three main factors. The best tyre is light, rolls fast and grips well for cornering. I'm still waiting to get all 3!
Really good riders can ride a near slick and still be faster than anyone I know. They work with drifting on most corners, weighting and unweighting, and doing superhuman direction changes mid corner. (my dream)
For the 'rest of us', we usually like something that is grippy on the front, and fast rolling on the rear.
As someone mentioned, the lighter you are the lower pressure you can run, and that helps too. But you have to find the lower limit before you start to get punctures and pinch flats.
Tyre pressure is nearly as important as tyre selection. Even a great tyre is going to be slippery if it is too hard.
So, IMHO a good all rounder for racing in NSW is the maxxis crossmark. Assuming you are pretty light, you could try around 32-34psi even a bit lower in the front.
I personally find they wash out on the front a bit too much for how I ride, but other guys go faster than me round the corners and they have them, so it comes back to how you ride. They are great on the back, slightly better cornering grip than a Larson.
Recently I've settled on a Kenda Nevegal DTC 2.1 on the front, for grip in all conditions,
and a Nevegal Small block 8 on the rear (at around 530g) for low rolling resistance and predictable drifting. This gives good grip on the front, and the back just follows, although the small block is pretty loose for braking in sketchy conditions. The front is not a light tyre at 640g, but I find I can keep more corner speed with more margin for safety.
The Ignitor is popular, but it is a very rounded profile and tends to let go suddenly rather than slide predictably like the crossmark. I've confirmed this with a few other people, but never the less others swear by it.
There are others, the schwalbes are getting a good following, particularly the Racing Ralph, but these are a minimalist tread.
Just a couple of things to watch:
Weights vary, get kevlar bead, not wire
If the same model is available in different threads per inch (TPI), the one with higher TPI will generally be lighter.
Even the same batch of tyres can vary in weight, so if you can weigh a bunch of them in the shop you may save yourself 30g per tyre by getting the lightest ones!
So I've only covered a few tyres, but it may help you along the way.
W.
This is what ive settled on for the moment
Maxis Larsen 2.35 front and rear for Trail riding and XC in rocky conditions
Maxis Larsen 2.35 Front 2.1 crossmark rear for xc in smoother conditions
Crossmarks front and rear for marathons apart for dirtworks wich see's larsens front and rear
have also tried Nevegals which were good for tech trail riding but nothing else and hutch pythons which were ok but not as good as maxis
Fuss over the front tire more so than the rear I think. What is going on up front seems to make more difference.
I don't enter many events. But when I do it's Kenda Karma up front (less rolling resistance) on hard pack.
Currently I am running a Kenda Small Block 8 2.1 NON UST Folding 120 tpi 485g for $70 from SIC. It is giving heaps of grip and 2.1 is nice up front for a very light tire. The UST one is heaps heavier!. 2.0 Maxis Larson folding on the back.
I have most of the following XC tires available 2nd hand (some are new, some very new, some used but fine, front tires don't wear like rear ones). They are stored in a cool dark place. They are the result of me trying lots of tires.
Want to buy any?
First, I now only buy folding tires, not wire bead - typically 50 to 100g lighter (all rotating at the wheel's circumference) - that's the most effective weight loss for the least money.
I am also now a tubeless convert plus sealant - I run around 27psi on the front, 32 at the back and have never had a flat with tubeless (hold thumbs). 5psi makes a big difference.
As above, up front is what counts - it's easy to control a rear slide, the front is a bit tricky when it suddenly goes, but most times I can (just) recover. Also, the front hardly wears at all - eventually the casing gets cut or a knob gets ripped off. Good tires are expensive - typically $60 to $100 (as much as a car tire!) - buy a good one for the front, use someone's secondhand one for the back (everyone has loads of slightly used tires)
I prefer a fatter tire - normally run 2.2 to 2.4" width (esp in the front)- weight is the problem, though (600 to 700g is my upper weight limit).
In my opinion, hard tails need a fatter tire on the rear, for better grip on the loose and for comfort.
I generally prefer round profile tires rather than square.
Have used and liked:
- Continental Vertical Pro 2.3 - used on the front for ages, eventually a knob tore off, exposing canvas, so I chucked it.
- Maxxis Larsen TT in 2.35 (but a bit heavy) - used front and rear
- Maxxis Monorail UST 2.1 - used rear only (still on)
- Schwalbe Racing Ralph UST 2.25 - used front only (but is great on the back too)
- Geax Saguaro 2.2 29er (non-UST, but running tubeless) - used front only (current tire).
I have also used Maxxis High Roller 2.35 (too heavy) and Hutchinson Barracuda - somehow didn't like it.
I really, really like the (very expensive) Schwalbe Racing Ralph, though it does let go a bit suddenly when pushed to the limit and I have had a few close shaves. The Schwalbe Nobbly Nic has a similar casing, more aggressive tread, slightly heavier. You must get 2008 or 2009 version (with the "U-blocks"), which were a substantial upgrade.
The Geax Sauguro on the front of my 69er is absolutely brilliant. I have the lighter non-UST version, but strangely it was completely airtight (but I chucked in some sealant anyway). In general, non-UST works, but you need to pick the right tires.
Maxis Crossmark 2.1 is undoubtably the most popular amongst serious racers, but I think the very similar Monorail is slightly better. Good deal here:
http://www.torpedo7.com.au/shop/bike/tyres-mtb
This (Schwalbe) article from 2006 reckons that fat tires at lower pressure have lower rolling resistance: http://www.bicicletta.co.za/Downloadable%20docs/... Note that these are the older versions of the Schwalbe tires.
And lastly, read this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=419392
Hmmmm, have tried a fair few over the years
as others have said, to run tubeless, you generally dont need UST specific tyres...a strong bead helps. for this reason, hutchinson, michelin and a few others are not recommended but i personally have run dry xcr2 for example without tubes as low pressures (22-25psi). this again depends a lot on riding style, weight, surface, rims, etc. a getto setup can be made tubeless with rim tape, valve from a tube. some tyres with particularly thin and porous sidewalls will have to be left on its side (sa on a bucket) and swapped a few times before you can get them to seal. a good way to get the bead on quickly is to remove valve (to get a good rush of air in) or use a tube to 'form' a new tyre and get the bead on, then remove tube and you can more one.
i peronally dont like the crossmarks as they are somewhat flimsy and i also am not enamoured with the squirmy nature when loaded on its side when you lean the bike over (prob due to the daft round knobs on the edge). having said that i have two on a bike right now and waiting for them to wear
my personal preferance these days are the racing ralphs for a front (fastish rolling, good grip in most conditions), and absolute fav is the small block 8 (for both front and rear)...decent grip levels, but more importantly good feedback and no sudden losses of grip ! i'd rather the tyres start to drift that give way when approaching limit
being a lazy git, i have dispensed with capitals and stuff ;-(
good place to get small block 8's in syd ? anyone ?
--
hanging out for a ride
forsale! trek carbon top fuel
Maxxis Ignitor up front is best. i use a 2.35 which is the same size as a Kenda 2.1 strangely enough. i like kenda on the back as they are soft and grippy but they do wear out quickly.
Beth, if you used my combo for pure cross country you would prob go for 2.1 ignitor on front and 2.0 kenda on the back.
oh and i dont mind what kenda it is. nevegal is popular but i have a karma at the moment and find it just as grippy.
I really like the Michelin tyres. I use to run an XC Dry on the rear and a XC/AT on the front, both 2.1's and running stans conversion I would run about 30psi in the rear and about 28psi in the front on my XC HT. From Maxxis I have used High rollers and ignitors, I hated the high rollers but liked the combo of a 2.1 rear and a 2.35 front ignitor, these were run on a 5in travel AM bike run with stans convo again. A good tyre for just general trail riding I found was the Geax Sturdy, a bit heavy but very durable and grippy in all conditions, I ran them same as the Ignitors 2.1 rear and 2.35 front but they were on an older FSR XC. At the moment I am running Kenda Karma DTC L3R 2.1's front and rear, after the first few rides I found them skatey and wasn't that impressed. After playing with the pressures the last couple of rides I am starting to like them. They need to be run at 34-35psi to get good grip and they roll very well. They are really light too at about 450g, although this has it's downside as I ripped a hole in the sidewall of one on the first ride pretty sure it had more to do with running under 30psi on a rocky trail though. I probably will go to a SB8/Nevegal combo once these wear out. For some reason I hardly ever go back to the same tyre when they wear out, the only ones I did that with were the Sturdy's and the Michelins and both were on the bikes when I sold them so I probably would've bought them again once they wore out.
Thanks for everyones ideas and experiences with mamy different tyre combos. I am still trying to decipher the different makes and models but I understand that I need to try a few different tyres and find something that works for moi.
http://www.torpedo7.com.au/products/MXTYMNNH0
looks like a good deal!
Bernd
Hi,
I've run various maxxis tyres and can't fault them.
My favourite combination for general xc is Crossmark 2.1 front and Larsen 2.0 rear (the Larsen rolling speed is great.
I currently have a New Crossmark 2.1 kevlar bead which I'm about to put on ebay. Let me know if you want it, $25, and we can arrange pick up.
cheers, Barney
2.1 Crossmark UST Front & 2.0 Larsen TT UST Rear works best for me as far as cornering, climbing and flat out speed goes.
if it gets muddy, I swap the crossmark for an Ignitor.
http://www.torpedo7.com.au/products/MXTYMNNH0 = MAXXIS High Roller Type R - 26 x 2.0 70a
At least it is light at 485g
I run the 2.1 exception version of this and that is about as skinny as I would want to go with that tyre unless you were only ever on hard pack or the black stuff. It is a skinny 2.1 compared to other makes as well
Another plus, aside from the weight, is that they are incredibly fast
Let there be light
What is a High Roller Type R? It doesn't seem to be on their website?
i just ordered some of the type R's, at $25 each there worth a try
Don
see: http://nobmob.com/node/7092#comment-24336
sturdy & grippy, 750 grams
__________________
May all your lines be the right ones...
stuartm, how do the larsens roll compared to the crossmarks ? faster ?
look kindda similar to the small block8
jaseh, yes are nice, superfast rolling, decent grip levels, but the michies are soft and really only raceday kinda tyres. they also needed to be treated with kid gloves running tubeless and dont like pressures above 35psi unless you want to redistribute wear sealant and potentially wear some of it
there is a reason stans dont recommend these...for tubeless setups.
btw. been running 29r versions of crossmarks/small block8 etc., whihc will have a bigger volume and therefore ride diferently
others, nanoraptors, michies, etc on 26" duallys.
--
hanging out for a ride, throw me a bone, someone?
forsale! trek carbon top fuel, spare frame/fork combo
Crossmarks have are slightly faster but have less grip. The crossmarks sidewalls are also thinner so i wouldn't reccomend them for rocky terrain
I don't run corssmark, and never had. I was referring to the High Roller Exception 2.1 with silkworm. Compared to the Larsen they are in another league. heaps faster and they don't tend to get the "someone's grabbing my back wheel" feel when you hit loose stuff. That said, it take a while to get the tyre pressure right.
Let there be light
- Sidewall toughness
- Pinchflat resistance
- Tubeless or not
- Grip - traction (consider: hardpack, sand, fixed rocks, lose rocks, tarmac, etc - all in wet and dry conditions)
- Grip - cornering (as above)
- How suddenly it lets go
- Ease of fitting (and security)
- Rolling resistance
- Rolling smoothness
- Mud shedding ability
- Width/volume
- Durability
- Weight
- Price
- What else?
We are faced with this:
http://nobmob.com/node/6741#comment-22823
You seem like a nice person, borrow some of my spare tires for a couple of weeks and try em out. If you want to keep 1 or 2 make and offer. I'll take about 1/2 the retail price I paid.
noel, hope u r not referring to me i am not really nice..it just sometimes appears that way
gonna miss the night ride...another day, i hope the rain is hitting the spots really needed too.
rangie
--
hanging out for a ride, throw me a bone, someone?
forsale! trek carbon top fuel, spare frame/fork combo
nah, Beth, anyways, you would damage the 26" tires trying to fit them on your 29'er
Maxxis Larson on the rear (more popular than I thought)
Maxxis High Roller on the front.
I am also trialing a pair of Kenda Nevegals both front and rear, so far so good
Phil
Hello Bernd,
you'll find the Conti Mountain King here for EUR29,99, but black only it seems.
Delivery cost are also cheaper with EUR30 flat instead of EUR50 at bike-mailorder.de.
It's certainly cheaper than chainreaction, unless I got my numbers wrong.
When will you order? I would like to get some of the Schwalbe tyres.
Schwalbe Nobby Nic
http://www.bike24.net/1.php?content=8;product=35...
Conti Mountain King
http://www.bike24.net/1.php?content=8;product=65...
I found the Schwalbe Nobby Nic also at Croydon Cycles at $89. With the current conversion rate, the tyres from o/s are about $59.
Shipping cost flat rate is also about $59. Which means ordering 3 or more will be cheaper than buying here... If tax get's deducted form the o/s delivery, than it's even cheaper.
Let me know if I overlooked some hidden discounts.
Anybody else wants to order tyres?
Cheers
Sascha
Some of the ones on sale are the 2007 model. 2008 is a major upgrade - effectively a different tire.
Also, there are quite a few different versions.
Cheers
Nic
good catch nic, perhaps a group buy or similar ?
i would be interested in trying out for myself;
- Kenda Karma Kevlar 29er Tire 29x1.9
http://www.bikebling.com/Kenda-Karma-Kevlar-29er...
or maybe even a
- Schwalbe Little Albert Kevlar 29er Tire x2.25
--
hanging out for a ride, throw me a bone, someone?
forsale! trek carbon top fuel, spare frame/fork combo
... Let me know
my white side wall one's are already delv. to the German Head office (got there on Thursday!), which I will travel to on the 12.3.
I only wanted the white side wall one and freight is no issue for me, as I get it sent to Attendorn/Germany and either pick up or get it sent with our Containers
of plumbing goods.
The price you saw is good, the white side wall is a special edition and hard to get, so E33 is quit a good deal, too.
I also order'd a few Rohloff chains (one for PIKEY!!!!)
Bernd
Sascha, you can take 19% off Bike24's prices... although, I think CRC tend to be cheaper still.
I'm not a fan of Nobby Nics... found they were too knobby for Sydney rocky conditions. Found they 'stepped off' too quickly, so never gained confidence in them. I'm running some Ritchey WCS and am quite pleased with them. Have just bought some Michelin Dry2s and am keen to see what they're like. Have had a brief foray with Crossmarks and they feel pretty good, but haven't tried them in Sydney.
Nevegal UST tubeless 2.2, new one up front, worn one on the back. Been fantastic. 100KG so dont mind the little extra weight.
These both ran really well and fast!- converted to tubeless using BMX tubes and an extra set of hands rather than tubeless kit and recommend it. I bought the gear from www.moruyabicycles.com.au- they have a great range and delivered it all very quickly.
this weekend at yarramundi i am going to try a crossmark exception (2.1) on the front and a higher roller type r (2.0) on the rear ($25 from torpedo). The high roller is skinny as but looks like it would roll well. Both are under 500g. I think it would be a great tyre on something like the dirtworks where there is no tight single trail twisty stuff, dont think it will go to well this weekend but will try it out, can always throw on the crossmark on the rear as well if its crap.
Don
Swap 'em over and put the grippier tyre on the rear?
anyone tried the
crow or raven ? in either 26 or 29r ?
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hanging out for a ride, throw me a bone, someone?
forsale! trek carbon top fuel, spare frame/fork combo
crossmark rear monorail front??
recommendatoin from LBS to buddy reheeling his machine - any comments anyone?
I have a monorail and a crossmark to try out for the Mont
Both about 2.0 or 2.1
I thought the 2.35 ignitor front a bit of overkill (2.1 Larson rear) for Sparrow
Is kiwboys combo a good one for the Mont style of riding
Bit nervous about lack of grip, and being tubeless tyres mounted with a floor pump, will prob. only get a ride or 2 test ride on them.
I have been very happy with the monorail front crossmark rear combo. The monorail has a lot more cornering grip so works quite well up front.