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to clip or not to clip
NB: Originally posted elsewhere on the Global Riders Network and appears via syndication.
Hi All,
I am very new to mtbing and after years of sitiing on the couch its time to plunge in and get involved. I have a new bike which I very grateful for the dual suspension as these old bones are having issues, but my question is to get more out of the bike do I go to clips or not? Very concerned as to falling and not been able to get my feet out quick enough.
Cheers
crash bandikoot
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go with the clips, and have a spin on a park or grassed area to have a bit of practice with clipping in and un-clipping. Once you're confident try it on an easy trail.
You should be able to un-clip quick enough when you think you're going to fall.
For years I made jokes about how clips were for smooth legged roadies but I tried them on a new bike and within a week I would never go back. They take no time at all to get used to. Even a lot of the downhillers are using them because then you know exactly where your back wheel is. Get into em - besides if you aren't falling off your not trying hard enough!
Clips are where you want to end up, but I would not recommend them to start with. The fear of clipstacking held up my skills development considerably in the early stages.
These days, I feel very uncomfortable and insecure *without* them.
It's a very different pedalling style and you tend to deliver the power more smoothly with clip-ins as you're not worried about your foot slipping at the top and bottom of the stroke. Nor am I worried about my feet rattling off the pedals over rough stuff, or becoming separated from my bike mid-air off a jump or waterbar ... although with skill and practice flats are fine for jumping.
Clip-ins are great but agree with Hawkeye you probably want to get comfortable with flats for a while first.
The only thing to add is to make sure that when you do buy them adjust the tension right down while you get used to them and then you can increase later (if you want to) once the unclipping action is more natural. The adjustment on shimanos is just a small allen key on both sides. Usually clearly marked with + and - directions.
I started road racing when i was 9, so im always going to clip in.
Apart from vastly improved pedalling efficiency, I find i get far more like control especially when jumping.
Flats seem to be reserved for beginners, and DH riders who need their feet off at a moments notice.
Shimano SPD's (and probably others) have tension settings. When new, you can loosen them till you get the hang of it.
my wife has just started using them, and she finds the platform type pedals work well, you can clip in, or just use them as a normal pedal, when she knows she is going to stop she unclips a little bit before she stops, it works very good for her, just a thought
I clip in . I couln't be without it. yes at first you will have a few offs you will get a few scraches. Just do it. It will also teach you to become a much cleaner rider. & eventually far more skilled.
Clip in, especially if you are new to the sport. You're going to fall of anyway may as well get use to the clips now and get all the silly falling done at once.
I've said it before I'll say it again. I can get my foot off a set of clipless faster than I can gt off a descent flat pedal. It's getting it back in fast that can cause you t miss time in DH, and no matter what anyone say trying to ride unclipped on a platform type clipless pedal over rough terrain is a lesson in being out of control...
Playing devil advocate though MTBJames (wilson) recons people who learn on clips get lazy with pedal stroke and technique, which is probably true but if you work on that too as you're learning alls the better
Ride which ever pedal isn't holding you back from improving.
This may mean different things at different times of your progression on different trails.
+1 For clipping in.
I clipped in very early after I bought my first bike and haven't looked back. Sure, you'll have a few stacks were you can't get out fast enough in the first few weeks, but it's worth persevering as the benefits of bike control and efficiency are huge.
Riding clipped in is way better, but I don't think its a great hurry to do it. You will need a bit of fitness before you will get a power advantage, and some skills are better learned on flats.
When you feel ready in a few months give them a go. Initially adjust the tension to just enough so they don't clip out on their own. That way they are very quick to get out of, almost the same as flats. Increase the tension as you get more accustomed to them.
Ultimately there is only one way to go and thats to clip in. Not just for speed but you also feel safer knowing you aren't going to slip off pedal.
I didn't and can't see any benefit in clips. You do have to anticipate removing your feet and this held me back from trying technical areas. With flats you will have to develop good technique both for peddling and bike skills regardless but you just remove one area of concern knowing if you need to/want to dab your foot you can. I find that with flats I am more likely to just have a go.
Each to there own!
I use both and regularly swap between flats and clip less just depending on how I feel or wear I'm riding. I love clip less for dropping off small ledges and logs as it keeps my feet on the pedals. Bloody scary when your in the air and you can't feel the pedals under your feet until you land.
I prefer flats for technical climbing. I loose confidence to quickly if I'm clipped and often bail before giving it a go. With flats ill charge in at that climb with no fear.
Don't be afraid to fall, if you start to fall and can't get your foot out. Lower your centre of gravity and resist that urge to put your hand out. Your best off to just keep holding the handle bars.
I now ride both flats and clips and I swap often. It did take a couple of rides to get used to swapping. Flats gave me more confident to push my technical skills, and hence I found when I went back to flats my technical skills improved.
Apart from spinning on the Oaks, I don't feel there is any real advantage in clips for me and the way I ride.
My theory is go with what ever feels good for you and makes your riding enjoyable.
if you are new to mtb then start out on clip ins. i got clip ins with my first mtb and i had never ridden with them before, mtb or road. anyone who says they are worried about not being able to unclip in time just hasn't spent the time on clip ins. once unclipping is locked into your muscle memory it is not harder or slower to get your foot off the pedal than flats. the benefits of clip ins far outweigh a few months of feeling a bit insecure on tech sections.
When i started out riding, i was on flats then went to clip less, then back to flats on my latest bike. I love flats way to much to change back, at least for a while. I could use clip less perfectly fine, i could clip in and out no problem but as perviously mentioned i had no confidence in them and HATED having to worry about unclipping for a technical section and then my foot would clip back in at the worst possible time. I didn't really notice any benefits including the common one about climbing better because you can pedal on the upstroke.
By all means go clip less, defiantly a worthwhile experience and chances are you will love them but there just not for me and my style of riding.
.....but be aware that flats will allow you to develop your skills whereas clips can simply mask a lack of skills.
I went clips for years and have now enjoyed 18 months of riding without. My skills and enjoyment have increased plus I will ride harder as I don't have to worry about clips not unclipping.
You should also check that your knees aren't going to struggle with clips as they don't allow as much free / natural movement as flats.
If you go flats, you will still need to get the right gear, namely 510 brand shoes and flats with 8-12 pins per side. I find Straitline to be great pedals.
Anyone can bail out with flats but it takes commitment to wear clips.
Clip in mate! & no pedal bite on the shins(still have scars!)
I tried the 'locked in mode' & it wasn't all bad. However, my left knee does NOT like unclipping.
So, I've gone back to flats. However, people who say that 'their feet come off the pedals' & 'lose control' really don't know what they're talking about.
Get some good pedals AND shoes, technique, and you're away. I'm not saying that there's no advantage to being locked in, but it's not for me. And after 6 or so weeks trying it, I don't think I'm missing out on much. Back to flats!
"It's just one man's opinion." (Royal, The Royal Tenenbaums)
I did notice when I went to flats that I had been in the habit of doing things a certain way in clips and I started again in some ways. I had to learn a different approach rather than just pull the bike around with me by my feet. My knees and lower back feel better too.
It's been said by others that 'once you go clip less you'll never go back'. I did and I think others will to.
Apart from those couple who've found knee or other joint issues due to their own anatomical individuality, and the techy downhillers/ trials riders who need to dab and replace their foot on the pedal frequently, hearing the rest of you talk about having gone back to flats it zounds like you haven't persevered long enough for the reaction to become fully automated (Jono
) Sometimes it takes time, sometimes its quick. Took me awhile but i'm glad i persevered.
I suppose it also depends on how techy your local trails are. If they're non-technical then clips from day one is feasible. If they're techy, start with flats. I'd recommend wearing your old soccer shinguards and maybe some kneepads if the latter is your situation... the pedal pinspikes aren't real kind to shins.
While there will be some recidivists who go back to their old ways
the vast majority who go clipless stay with it.
I always unclip when I get to the trail. Most of my riding is too and from work, through LCNP with a couple of k's of hilly roads at either end, and I like to be clipped in for standing and pushing up the hills on the road, but unclipped on the trail in case I have to put a foot down quickly. Even after ten years riding clipped in on my road bike and MTB, it still isn't instinctive for me to twist to unclip. Maybe it was the twenty years of riding in runners and toeclips before that.
There is one section on the trail that I find difficult and I only make it without putting a foot down about once in every ten attempts, but I want to be able to concentrate on getting up there and not on being preapred to unclip.
I'd also echo the suggestion to have the clips quite loose, and also ensure the cleats are tight. For a while when I was first using clips one of my cleats was loose without me knowing it, and I had to give my foot quite a jerk to unclip it, which probably helps explain my apprehension now.
Anyone can ride attached to the bike, it take skill to stay attached.
Get some 510 shoes or similar if you do go flats.
To the op , reading your initial post carefully, there is really only one sensible option for you, and that's flats. I only ever ride clips, but the power advantages are minuscule for someone social riding and getting fit . What I would highly recommend for the first year or so is shin guards- especially when walking the bike which you will do a lot.
I am far more concerned of keeping it fun and motivated- falling flat left on "old" shoulders can easily cause long lasting injuries. About the only thing I can think of that's fun about clips is being able to bunny hop from the get go. Read the bike james article on this topic and spend a little time practicing hopping on flats
Not sure what the issue is with riding techy stuff clipped in. Its' all in the head and I find I'm way more in control and confident hitting the techy stuff clipped in.
I ride both xc and DH clipped in and prefer rocky techy DH trails over the more open and jump strune ones(thought I don't ride it as much as I use to) and cut my teeth on the rocky AM trails we have up this way, climbing, descending it's so much easier when you're not worried about your foot bouncing out of position.
I am older as well and tried clipping in around Manly Dam once but i found i was too worried about coming off and would wimp out on a lot of the easier parts "just in case"
I rode The 'Casual' Highland Fling clipped and quite enjoyed it as it was a much easier, flatter trail to ride. I wouldnt hesitate doing it again
More than anything though i find that i feel limited by riding clipped in. I dont like my feet being stuck in the one position all the time so went back to flats. It was probably more to do with getting used to it, but i also suffered some minor leg pains which added to the discomfort. Sure your not as stable on them but i am much more confident with my riding when on flats so they stay on my bike 99.9% of the time
Personally I never got comfortable finding the balance between being able to get out of clips fast enough and also having them tight enough when things get out of shape.
Gave up on clips after getting out of shape a few times and having them release unexpectedly at the worst possible moment.
I find wearing 510's and flats my feet are stuck to the bike much better and are less likely to pop off the pedal if it all gets a little loose and out of whack through a rock garden.
Your feet only leave the pedals if you jump and forget to take your bike with you. Don't jump higher than your bike unless you mean it.
Personally I'm happy with my flats. I've got some cheap ass nylon pedals that are indestructible. No, really. These things are tough. I can't recall these ever drawing blood. They're great in the wet and light, too. I've smashed them into plenty of rocks and they come back for more and I'm no lightweight. Not bad for under 20 bucks. Judging by my strava times they don't seem to be holding me back too much on the descents, either.
I really should try the clipless ones I've got sitting on the shelf one day so I can comment from an informed position. I do love my Specialized mtb shoes, however. The stiff sole makes a big difference and the toe protection is excellent. Flats and proper shoes? a good compromise, imho.
Clipping in is a lot more daunting in the mind than in reality. As Flynny mentioned, getting out is not the hard bit, it's getting back in quickly that can be the pain. Matching the shoes and the pedals is also important. Platform style clip-ins work better with softer soled shoes. Stiff soles work better with small pedals. Flats with a soft, grippy sole will also work well but non-cycle specific shoes will probably not work well at all.
For those saying flats develop your skills, can you please elaborate? I've ridden both and I can't see any skill development occurring on flats that can't occur on clips. I also don't understand the benefit of clipping out before a techy section. You're negating the power and control benefits clips give in these sections and actually makes you more likely to have an incident.
Hi letthemeat cake , good comments, but to your question, of u watch a road rider you tend to notice that at the 5 o'clock position when pedaling the toe is down and pushing backwards - you also see this mountain biking top but only in people with clips. However it's better for a lower centre of gravity to have your heal lower than your fore foot , particularly with pedals level.
Flats encourage a low heal, clips encourage a pointed toe. Low heal is good for both power generation under stress and also for lower COG.
Hi Pharmaboy, I understand. I've found moving the cleat back towards the heal aids the power generation under stress, you tend to drop the heals anyway when out of the saddle and the ability to pull up with the other foot gets you over stuff you won't do on flats. I also find you flatten the heels when not pedalling thus lowering your COG.
the heal up is bad form but not necessarily a clip in thing. When learning Iwas told "pretend you are wiping dog poo off the mid sole of your shoe." to help pedal in full circles and get power through the dead spot at the bottom of the stroke
Skills that you need to develop if riding flats that clips would generally negate:
Bunnyhopping
Staying on the pedals when hitting rough sections / rock gardens
Staying on the pedals when hitting jumps or drop offs.
Turning the bike when airborne to achieve a direction change upon landing
Picking your rear end up a rock shelf or log
Other flat pedals benefits:
The foot can remain on the pedals without having to be flat on the pedal. This can be useful when either cornering hard and leaning the bike a long way over.
If I know of a larger drop off, I might move my foot to be central on the pedal as opposed to ball of foot over spindle. Better for taking larger impacts.
The same method holds true for dropping the heels in a rock garden. COG is lower.
Power delivered through the ball of the foot tends to be quad dominant whereas centre of foot recruits more glutes and hamstring. That's kinder to the knees and also less fatiguing.
I find the notion of "just commit yourself in a rock garden when wearing clips" a little silly. Being comfortable that you can stop / dab whenever whilst getting familiar with a section would be far more beneficial than just gritting your teeth and going for it. Besides, if Brendan Fairclough says he can charge certain sections harder with flats, then I'm happy to listen to that!
My thoughts are that it's best to learn and develop on flats and just use clips when they're necessary. If you know you're going to ride a lot of rock gardens, drops, jumps etc then clips might be useful as they mean it's one less thing to think about and will fatigue you less if it's a longer ride.
One final thought, when I rode clips, I nearly always unclipped my left foot when stopping or if I need to steady myself in a tech section. This might just be me - others might swap frequently - but if you really need to bail, getting both feet off the bike when things are already in the process of being pear shaped might be less instinctive then a quick dab. It's the difference between "oops" and "oh s*#t".
To the OP - the flats Vs clips is like asking whether cats or dogs are better. Hopefully you there is enough info in this thread to help you make an informed decision which is really the only thing you need to do.
You're assuming that cleats are mounted under the ball of the foot for most people.
Who does that these days?
Knocks your calves around too much.
Mine are as far back as I can get 'em.
Are they now producing shoes with cleats under or close to under the arch?
five 10 minnahs and shimano DX both let you get the cleat a fair way back. Not sure why you'd want it right back under the arch though.
Just reviving this thread......
I am fairly new to MTBiking and am thinking about "clipping in". My main concern is when riding up steep pea gravel hills, where i often stop-start a few times to get to the top.
Not so worried about falling over because I am sure I will quickly learn how to unclip fast enough (but will be funny learning..... and im slightly worried about breaking my ankle!). My main concern is those times when I stop half way up a steep gravel hill and need to start again. There is no way i am going to be able to clip back in fast enough to start pedalling when I need full power & forward motion instantly.
For this instance, are the clip 'platform' style pedals best. That way I can ride unclipped up the hill, and then clip-in at the top. Make sense?
I think you learn quickly where to place your foot on the pedal for your shoe to clip in - so long as you have it set up right. As soon as you put power in - click!
You'll probably learn how to do this quicker than you'll learn to unclip before stopping.
The sooner you start using them the sooner you'll get used to it. Just do it!
Otherwise you'll procrastinate for the rest of your life and you'll never become a good rider.