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State Forests Closed 18/01/13
NB: Originally posted elsewhere on the Global Riders Network and appears via syndication.
There are State Forest closures tomorrow. I also had clarification today that Ourimbah is the Central Coast and not the Hunter and the previous media release last weekend should have also stated the Central Coast.
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I watched with interest how the last forum post developed into a battle between those like a bit of freedom of decision vs those who think the state has a role to protect individuals (fireys as well).
The one point that came out was whether there was a precedent to be set.
The reports for last weekend were that it would be hot, so everything was closed, and people made other plans.
It wasnt hot. It rained.
Its forecast to be hot tomorrow - so again - everything is shut.
Its a bit of a worry to be honest.
MTB - we often get smashed in the winter because we cant ride trails when they are wet. They get destroyed etc.
Now, if it gets over 35 degs, we cant ride either.
I dont know if I am a liberalist, or a left-winger, but I do worry about where this is heading....
theres a reason theres sayings like better safe than sorry.
so yea 90% of the time a closure may not end up being necessary.. but on the one time that it was needed and not in place and someone died... you have the population screaming.
Common sense is not so common these days and if it means risking lives to pull someone out of a fire... or avoiding a lawsuit on money better spent building trails then im all for closures.
there's 365 days in a year and less than 10 mean the forests are off limits? Storm > teacup.
i.e. me, what's the difference in relation to a State Forest and a National Park? Can I assume with State Forests being closed, all National Parks are still open? Or is it the same thing?
No-one could ever accuse me of being someone who likes rules or even obeys them
But fact is we live in a society where nobody takes responsibility for their own actions
if a forest is closed and you make the choice to ride/ walk there anyway
Expect a good fine (at least) if you need to be rescued
And if you burn, then the 'authorities' will at least be able to say that you were warned
If the forest was open and you were burned or died, there would be a hell of a hoo ha and the hunt for scapegoats would begin
of course it would be the poor buggers at ground zero copping the flack
it may be arse covering or maybe not
But the amount of mongs you see up here in the mountains heading off into the bush totally unprepared is frightening
We also have unprecedented fuel loads and unpredictable conditions
This has everyone a bit on edge
The efforts of the firies has been outstanding in keeping damage and particularly deaths to a minimum
And everyone is doing everything they can to keep it that way
I'm ignoring this! I'll review the risk and make my own decision. I don't need a Nanny State and won't won't be taking direction from it.
If I cop a fine so be it.
To those who say I'm putting others at risk. Bollocks.... and enjoy your cotton wool world where there is no risk and everything can be controlled....
... different agencies in different mega departments as far as I know. State forests are managed for their timber resources. NP's are managed to a different set of values, mainly around environmental and historical heritage.
At present, State Forests have put up the closed sign for tomorrow. This will impact Ourimbah, Awaba and Wingello trail and anywhere else in a State Forest (e.g. Mogo).
NPWS updated their web site a couple of hours ago, mentioning a total fire ban in ALL parks and listing specific closures where applicable. Garigal, Ku-ring-gai Chase and Royal all appear to be open. Bits of the Bluey's are closed (e.g. Yerranderie, where there is a fire). But generally, it all seems OK for riding tomorrow in NP's around Sydney, if you don't mind the risk of dehydration and sun stroke.
The weather turns mild again on the weekend, so no additional restrictions are likely over that period.
Yesterday the Forecast I have for Friday was 42c and a chance of an evening thunderstorm. I expected there to be closures in place.
I have no intention of riding tomorrow but if I was there are still locations that can be ridden that are not managed by parks & Forests and will still be open!
Personally, I believe the closures are fair. There are other options still available.
Last weekend when there was closures in place I went riding at Western Sydney Regional park which was still open.
It's great to see the widely varying opinions on this topic. It means that NobMoB, and MTB in general really is a cross section of society. It also shows that some people still believe in personal responsibility and others in community responsibility.
I was speaking at length on this topic last Sunday with a member of the RFS. I won't pretend that I can represent his or their views or reasoning for the application of blanket bans on access, so any views I share here are my views developed in conjunction with what I heard.
I tend to view this situation in a similar light to Bloot and FlyingTomato. The while we are each individually responsible for our choices and actions, the community has a duty of care to protect those who are unable or unwilling to make the decision not to place themselves at risk.
I think our personal input to the commuity duty of care is to observe the closures; a) to improve the visibility of those who chose to enter the park during a closure, for nefarious purposes or otherwise and b) to reduce the imperative for fireys etc to need to gain access to a dangerous situation should our personal judgement be found lacking.
How many here would choose the financial, mental and physical burdens of severe injury from a bushfire over missing a day or two on the bike in the bush, or the guilt should a volunteer be injured rescuing your sorry arse. I certainly wouldn't.
One thing I can say is the the RFS member I was talking to was fully aware that the closures last weekend might appear over the top, to the public, with the benefit of 20:20 hindsight and the change in the weather from the conditions that had been forecast. If the conditions had been as forecast the story might be completely different.
One thing strikes me, if those who say they will disobey the closures get fried in a fire, in a park where closures were in place, their insurance company might be interested in the views stated here.........
So what are we to make of the fact they expected as early as Friday 12:30pm the conditions to improve dramatically overnight Saturday night, yet kept the ban in place on Sunday?
See note here: http://nobmob.com/node/39951
The NPWS guy i spoke to gave his name as Peter Birdman when i asked for a name to quote regarding the closure.
John I believe they did remove the closure for ku-rin-gai for the Sunday, remember it wasn't on the list of park closures linked in that other thread.
To be honest I don't think this has anything to do with personal responsibility vs. community responsibility and everything to do with a move in Australian culture towards a litigious society and the resultant public liability insurance industry.
When I made my comment I was fully aware that should an Incident occur it may jeopardise my ability to hold someone else accountable. My point about all of this is that we are moving towards a society where government and governing bodies are so worried about risk that they are now over reaching in their management of that risk.
I have absolutely no issue with warnings being issued that make it clear that risk needs to be assessed and accepted by individuals... and of course if the individual is incapable of assessing that risk then they heed the warning. What I am absolutely against is a risk management strategy that is structured around the lowest common denominator or assumes that people are incapable of understanding and self managing risk.
But I can see where these governing bodies are coming from as people who could / should have been able to assess / avoid a risk are able to raise and win cases for compensation.
In truth my position is more balanced that I'm putting across. Like everything in life the issue of risk management and mitigation is not black and white. I think the current spate of park closures is showing that the pendulum has swung a bit to far from the middle!
Your point is entirely correct, Danielschipper
bloke next door was a paramedic for over 30 years (unfortunately passed away recently)
and his job became increasingly about paperwork and risk management
My wife who is a social worker is in the same boat
It's too easy for someone to forgo responsibility for their circumstances and blame everyone else
Unfortunately we live in a society where (pretty sure this is the story) a drunk bloke Jumps from a jetty and breaks his neck
He successfully sues the local council for insufficient signage making clear the danger
As a result, increased and obvious signage becomes the norm
Nanny states represent the majority of the population (nannies)
that doesn't mean as an individual you can't think for yourself and make your own decisions
i make a point of breaking rules i don't agree with, and it drives my wife mad lol
'Oh no, the same rules don't apply to Andy' - if i had a $....
Andy, I'd thought you would be at the Big Day Out. How hot would it be there today.
To me this is all a moot point discussion for today at least. Who is actually out there riding in 41 degree heat? If you are you need your head read!
too hot out there for this old timer Brian
i'd be in the ecstasy OD tent on a drip lol
i hope our luck holds up here with no real fire threat
Only one out at kedumba walls and is under control
Old mate lighting the fires last year was caught and so far seem to be no other idiots
Only 35 up here - but so dry it's scary
Went for a ride yesterday, and the permanent run off from the hanging swamps was totally dry
Now classed as semi permanent
Closing parks on very windy days?-I have spoken to a NPWS Field Officer about this & he said they consulted with an Aborist(? tree specialist) prior to going ahead with the Glenrock trails & he said to them a rider is only under a tree for a split second so it is just PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY if someone chooses to ride!!
Since towlers bay is currently on fire and out of control.
Clearly the RFS are out to spoil MTB riders sport by closing the tracks.
Burt I think you should either grow up or take a chill pill mate. No one is out there suggesting that it was wrong to close parks today, interestingly I didn't see blanket closures of NP today anyway.
The discussions that have taken place have been about blanket closures , not being dynamic enough to update / remove those blanket closures in a timely manner when changes occur, and also the general direction that blanket closures of parks is heading , ie that of a nanny state where people cannot be responsible for their own actions.
The irony in this mate is that your previous comment hit the nail on the head. State land was closed today. Moot point you say because its so hot who would be ridding anyway, those that are "need their head read". When the conditions dictate those with a brain stay at home, those without a brain, well do you think they are the ones that listen to news updates about blanket closures anyway?
It's not so much about nanny state, but arse-covering.
As a foreign visitor pointed out to me this year, we Aussies're all incredibly laid back. Until somethign goes wrong. Then we want our pound of flesh.
On a slight tangent: No wonder costs for businesses are so high and uncompetitive here. The amount of self-imposed red tape devoted to arse-covering we've come to accept (like a lobster slowly brought to the boil and cooked in a saucepan) is mind-boggling ... that administrative expense has to be paid by someone, and it ends up having a margin added to it and charged to us..
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=101511825959...
Is also on fire.
My belief is its a matter of respect for nature and the people paid to watch it and who understand the implications of extreme weather and the devastation it can cause to both life and property therefore have the responsibility of trying to let 'the masses' know and to protect them.
Nature is one unpredictable thang.
Just seem like spoilt children lol.
several weekends of the year there are mass closures for better safe than sorry measures and you complain about being controlled..
http://youtu.be/BLPM-P7mNQw
actually did some back burning then there would be nothing to worry about when it gets stinking hot!!!(that must cost $$$)
You mean hazard reduction.
Shitloads of hazard-yet no reduction
um 30yrs a bushie or RFS personal.Ill tell you a little about the differance hazard reduction[maybe 25 days a yrs this can happen]small low to ground fire to burn the fuel on the ground.After you have been fucked over by every dickhead known to man.Back burning[as the fire comes over the ridge line]you burn the shit out of everything to stop the fire getting to the greenies wooden houses.After this fuckhead polie has his knickers in a twist because he bent over for the greenies vote.By the way the NSW gov suck big ones the BOF has big plans and has ran out of money so sorry no lube to be used.
Sorry for the non greenies who lost there houses.